RAGE : It Deserves its own thread now!

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by RenegadeRocks, Jul 15, 2008.

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  1. patsu

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    It doesn't conflict with what he said: There is a little bit more headroom on the SPU side. Rendering is only one part of the game; important part but not everything. It's up to the devs whether and how to tap them. e.g., On the 360, they already need to handle extra decompression due to the DVD storage limit. At the same time, the freaking PS3 needs to deal with so-called better textures on the Blu-ray within its limited memory (probably more sophisticated Blu-ray --> HDD --> memory streaming ?). The consumers won't know what comes out of all these combo till the end.

    Would be great if the devs can maximize the platform advantages.
     
  2. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    I'm watching this thread very carefully. If you feel the need to post any inflamatory comments save yourself an infraction or ban and don't do it. That goes for PS3/XBOX/PC and yes, even MAC fans.
     
  3. nightshade

    nightshade Wookies love cookies!
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    So he may be talking about just the rasterizer then ? & not the actual framerates at which the game runs ?
    And I wonder why he said the CPU is on the same level...we know the PS3's GPU is on the short side but its the cell that compensate for it most of the time & I believe that is the reason we see almost like to like games on PS3 & 360.
     
  4. Scott_Arm

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    What use would there be in having the rasterizer run at 60fps if that wasn't what we were going to see on screen? Isn't the rasterizer the final stage before output to the screen? I honestly don't know. This isn't meant to be smarmy and rhetorical.
     
  5. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    I guess it may depend on what they are doing. I remember that insomiac (or naughty dog I'm unsure :???: ) had to secure two SPU for I don't remember which game even if they most of the time need between 1 and 1.5. maybe some of the stuffs they do require to block some SPUs on top of extra gpu work done on the GPU and that is leveraging the playing field.
    Anyway his comment about the GPU let me think that it's more of a gpu problem, ie ID may have done what it take on the CPU side but may have overlook low level API optimizations on the GPU.
    Anway, the title is far away ;)

    Actually I really hope to see more media for this game soon as all these technical problems are likely to be thing of the past when the game will launch somewhere in 2010.
     
  6. TimothyFarrar

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    I'm not sure I buy into the 20-30Hz PS3 vs 60Hz 360 thing in that article, but yet I wouldn't be too surprised if it was true either. If so, sure would be interested in knowing the bottleneck.

    I cannot imagine that they arn't using Edge and GCM by now (especially after Olick's presentation), even given a OpenGL code base which is likely easy to get going in PSGL. If not, well that might very well be a huge part of the reason. Also would guess that the fixed GPU/CPU memory split isn't in idTech5's favor (megatexturing), might force less than optimal placement of render resources.

    From the SPU comments, sounds like they are CPU bound. PS3 mixes with PC devs like Apples and Hand Grenades. In fact the realization might have been something along the lines of this, "what do you mean I cannot just do arbitrary pointer referencing and pointer chasing all over the code, or have my objects interconnected into a ball of twine? ... we've been doing that for years, frag, the cost to change that practice now, well, we cannot just rewrite the entire engine, that would be astronomically expensive".
     
  7. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    I expected some bull**** after reading that article, but not this much.

    People should really grow up and also give id the benefit of doubt. It's not like their PC programming was messy or lazy or ineffective so why do some of you expect them to suddenly turn into lamerz??
     
  8. JardeL

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    What ??? :shock:
     
  9. JPT

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    I'll give ID the benefit of the doubt until Grandmaster proves it ;)
     
  10. Weaste

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    There's something about all of this that doesn't make much sense, and I mean none.
     
  11. idsn6

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    The snippet is too vague and contradictory to take anything from. Wait for clarification; at the latest, it will come in two weeks at QuakeCon.
     
  12. JardeL

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    [ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16908323&postcount=475 ] ...
     
  13. Rangers

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 ends up 50-ish+ FPS while 360/PC is 60, ala COD4.

    But until it ships and can be given the Digital Foundry once over, cant say.
     
  14. assurdum

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    Where is the surprise? Carmack hasn't said 360 version is what we want to do but ps3 needs more sweat?
     
    #414 assurdum, Jul 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2009
  15. Lycan

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    Expected. You have to optimize the game for those SPUs, which is no easy task given that the game is destined to launch on all plateforms...
     
    #415 Lycan, Jul 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2009
  16. TimothyFarrar

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    Don't get me wrong, my bet is on a 60Hz PS3 version.
     
  17. Lycan

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    Maybe the problem resides in the fact that ID tackles a not so PCish architecture for the first time ? You should chill out by the way... :wink:
     
  18. bkilian

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    But because you'd have to mirror engine code and have multiple copies of textures in a multi-disc game, it's conceivable that the 360 version could need more space than the PS3 version.
    The textures may be less compressed, but the PS3 has less overall texture memory available, so using a higher resolution texture may not be a smart move, since you would have to do a lot more texture streaming.
    But that's the problem. ID is a PC house in general, and Carmack has gone on record numerous times about how he prefers the 360's symmetrical architecture over the PS3 one because it's more similar to the PC, and thus easier for them to transition to for programming.
     
  19. NRP

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    It will all be fine. Carmack doesn't release technically crappy games. The gameplay may suck, but the performance will be good.
     
  20. TimothyFarrar

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    I'm going to bet with mega-texturing you actually need less texture memory. GPU sets limits on maximum single texture size BTW. So problem is likely more that CPU memory is pushed to a limit on PS3 (because you keep a cache of either read-from disk texture data at a good bit higher compression rate than DXT5, and/or a cache of re-compressed to DXT5 texture data in CPU memory)...

    With extra GPU memory around on the PS3, then you get lazy and just fill it with something else that you might be tempted to stream, but don't because you no longer need to (and ideally you don't want to stream anything besides textures on consoles because after a few DVD seeks a second, arcade 360 owners will wet their pants as texture update slows down).

    Regardless, Rage will kick ass!
     
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