RAGE : It Deserves its own thread now!

[Butta]

Wow... they say the rasterizer is a little slower and then mention the framerate to be 3 x worse... seems like some optimizations aren't in yet. We have seen this type of disparity only in first gen titles but a 10-15% decrease seems to be the norm in current titles. Wonder if the Sony ninjas will be flown in.

 

[JPT]

Didn't ID hire their own Sony ninja?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yes they did, they have a programmer from Naughty Dog. So we can't say that they aren't trying hard enough...

 

[liolio]

That's a huge departure to some of his early comments, too the point that I wonder if they were legit or report in the proper context...

 

[betan]

I thought that ex-Naughty Dog guy became ex-id guy long ago.

 

[patsu]

From his quote:

"The PS3 lags a little bit behind in terms of getting the performance out of it," John Carmack told Edge. "The rasteriser is just a little bit slower - no two ways about that.

He's just saying the PS3 development lags behind 360. They still need to offload more stuff to the SPUs (The usual PS3 development paradigm):

"The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that's what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3," he said.

Otherwise, it's 1 PPU + partial SPU utilization vs 3 XCPU units. ^_^

Plus the RSX is slower.

 

[Sigfried1977]

No need to get your knickers in a twist just yet. I kinda doubt that ID of all people are going to release the next debacle of Ghostbusters proportions.

I'd like to read the whole interview first. Seems to have been condensed and stripped down with maximum fanboy baiting effect in mind.

 

[patsu]

The PS3 textures on Blu-ray are better because of the extra storage. So they may be trying to take advantage of the native strength of each platform. This is what I hope to see (He mentioned the SPUs have slightly more headroom in earlier interviews).

Carmack is talking about a snapshot of the build. We'll have to wait and see how their final system turns out.

 

[nightshade]

I dont know what to say....2x the framerate on 360 ? that too of a multiplat game coming from ID ? That is quite unbelievable for me.

Can we fully believe this ?
If yes then this needs some serious discussion.

P.S.[TBH I'll be largely disappointed if this happens ]

 

[liolio]

From his quote:

He's just saying the PS3 development lags behind 360. They still need to offload more stuff to the SPUs (The usual PS3 development paradigm):



Otherwise, it's 1 PPU vs 3 XCPU units. ^_^

Plus the RSX is slower.

It still doesn't add up with is previous comments about more "head room" on the ps3.
I don't think they are still at the "1 PPU vs 3 XCPU" point , he states that the same CPU wise it's more or less the same and a lot of the work has been (past tense) to split things (most likely to work on the SPU).

Thus I wonder if they were some early miss reported comments, like they have more headroom on the ps3 to reach their performances goals. Or as Carmack is indeed clever he know what fans want to hear PR wise and thus tried to gain some steam/mindshare.

Anyway we are more than six months away from launch, those issues should be mostly fixed by then.

 

[patsu]

It just means that the headroom is there, but they are lagging behind in PS3 implementation. It's not the first time Carmack talk about all these platform merits and demerits.

 

[nightshade]

Anyway we are more than six months away from launch, those issues should be mostly fixed by then.

Fix as in improving the framerates to 60FPS ?
Anyways Something tells me that Rage will not be 60FPS on any console but rather 30FPS on both...its not the first time we are hearing claims from dev to make 60hz games only to end up making a 30FPS game [heard the same with RE5]

 

[liolio]

Anyway it looks like ID put quiet some work on the CPU side of thing, I wonder if they just realise a bit late that they will have to get their hands more involved in RSX low level API.
It's not about potential it's about taking time to make it happens. If it comes down to GPU low level optimizations I would not call that "potential".

Between the article speak about four DVD and they are misslead, ID stated not that along ago Rage would be 2 DVD (one per waste land).
On the other side Doom may come on 3 dvd.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Well, they condensed a 10 page article down to a couple quotes, so I'd be interested in reading the whole thing. Not much of a chance of me buying the magazine though.

I'm a little curious about the 4 DVD comment, because I'm pretty sure they've said many times that it was 2 DVDs. Not sure how they've gone up to 4.

I'm also surprised the console version is targeting 60fps and not 30fps. In my eyes, it's a good thing, but it's pretty much counter to what anyone other than Infinity Ward is doing.

 

[liolio]

The "4 DVD part" is not from edge article, it's computer and videogame own comment

The PS3 edition was thought to be the most technically capable of the console pair, thanks to id being able to squeeze the gigantic shooter onto a single-player Blu-ray disc, compared to Xbox 360's four DVDs.

They are misslead, 4 dvd is more than a single layer BR.

 

[patsu]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/carmack-blu-ray-is-advantageous-for-rage-and-doom-4

Upcoming id title Doom 4 will "almost certainly" come on three discs, Carmack told GameInformer in an interview, as reported by VG247, although the studio is working on compression methods that will enable RAGE to ship on just two, since the nature of the game doesn't suit more than that.

He reiterated similar platform development status in the gamesindustry link:

"The 360 was easier to certainly to get to where we are now. More sweat equity had to be put into the PS3," said the id creative director.

"There's a little bit more theoretical raw performance on the PS3, so we've got a little bit more headroom."

The 60fps may refer to the rasterizer only. The final game may have lower framerate as a whole. It's probably easier to wait for the final specs. Won't be reading sensational reporting, if they use the same tactics for the full interview to draw traffic.

 

[liolio]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/carmack-blu-ray-is-advantageous-for-rage-and-doom-4

He reiterated similar platform development status in the gamesindustry link:

The 60fps may refer to the rasterizer only. The final game may have lower framerate because of other subsystems.

They would better achieve consistent performances as they plan to actually sell their engine.
Rage and Doom 4 have to be a showcase on every system available.

For the rasterizer comment I wonder if J.C just simply mean the GPU.

 

[Neb]

This was also interesting and explains the better perfomance the 360 has as the PS3 Cell would have to pick up the graphical slack and might then come short for other task for this 60fps game. However I expect them to downgrade visuals etc rather than drop the 60fps ball.

The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that's what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3," he said.

 

[patsu]

... in the context of rendering. But the SPUs can do more (They are not "fully" utlilized yet). It's not the first time Carmack mentioned these good and bad traits.

 

[Neb]

... in the context of rendering. But the SPUs can do more. It's not the first time Carmack mentioned these traits.

Perhaps but they might fall really short vs 360 GPU overhead. It woud probably cost more to achieve the same with Cell/SPU than a dedicated GPU. Then it would leave less time of the Cell/SPU and perhaps short to handle the rest of gameplay logic which could lead to compromisses. .