PlayStation suite

Agreed. The NGP or any touch screen device could control a TV (patents here too by other?) but if used to also play a game on the TV (via patent description) is patented by Sony.

Android application for Sale by Sony or are they going to manufacture a universal game-TV remote?

 

No it's not! Or rather, the law courts would have to argue that out between Logitech and Sony. The patent covers games consoles only. When Logitech produce one of their programmable LCD remotes, it'll have to be decided whether a TV counts as a games console or not. I'd say not, but that's for the lawyers to decide.

However, it's all off topic for a thread about PSS. This is a patent for a piece of hardware that is not NGP and doesn't need to run PSS or have its target applications running on PSS.

 

I'd like clarification; PS Suite will be used to port games and applications to other platforms. Discussions of what's possible given Sony patents that affect aspects of the port or support for the port should be a part of PS Suite.

It's also true that information developed in the HTML5 thread, Ultraviolet, OpenGL, and other threads are usable here. PS Suite will be used by Sony to develop applications for other Sony CE products.....not just games and will support a Sony ecosystem of Sony CE hardware and Media.

The patent may be used in a PS Suite port of Atari Jaguar games to multiple platforms. PS Suite is not NGP! PS Suite is a development platform that may have developers using the NGP IDE to write or port the game in a hardware neutral version. THE PATENT supports multiple platforms!!!!!!!! PS Suite will support multiple platforms and games from multiple older game consoles will be ported through PS Suite and for those of us who would like a controller like we remember, the Patent provides for this.

Is a TV a game console, in the strict sense are we describing a cabinet style? Or a non-portable game platform in which case a TV with game ability is a console+. When used with the patented device, a TV is functioning as a game console. Agreed it will probably be challenged.

 

I seriously doubt TiVo and Tim Hoeck are paying Sony royalties for this combination:

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.timhoeck.android.tivoremote
http://www.engadget.com/2005/08/05/tivo-adding-downloadable-content-games-internet-radio/

You can play games on TiVo, with the TiVo controller. You can also download to Android, an application that controls your TiVo over WiFi... so that you can play those same games from your "touchscreen TiVo controller" which is most likely an Android phone.

I've been doing this for nearly a full year now...

 

Sony don't need a patent for everything.

 

If they download a representation of the game controls to the touchscreen as related in the patent they might.

The TiVO links provided by you might explain the narrow focus in the Sony patent. I wasn't aware TiVO was so far sighted. Still, now that the industry has caught up to TiVO and "standards" are being supported in cheaper SOC....more will follow.

 

I replied yesterday but it wasn't posted, so I'm repeating myself in short.

You need to learn how to differentiate between topics and not mix them all together. Discussion of 4K TVs doesn't belong in a thread about HTML on PS3 and 360, and discussion of a new controller doesn't belong in a cross-platform language thread.

The controller interface can be written in any suitable language, so this isn't a subject of PSS.

You're just making stuff up here. There is no description of an interface standard in the patent. It's only describing an embodiment of a game console controller.

which proves your ideas aren't at all what Sony is thinking. If Sony were wanting to cover the idea of using an interface protocol to show differeint interfaces on mobile touchscreen devices like handheld games consoles and mobile phones, they wouldn't have limited the scope of their patent to "games consoles."

A patent's scope is absolutely limited by law to the definition of the first claim. All subsequent claims are just for clarification. The definition of the patent is, I repeat:

This definition cannot be extended to any application on any touchscreen device that can interface with any other CE device in order to play games. Nothing like. Nothing even vaguely related. Any ideas Sony may have for a universal controller app written in PSS have no protection whatsoever from this patent, and as such this patent has nothing to do with PSS any more than a discussion of sixaxis has.

 

Xperia Play officially confirmed on FaceBook:
http://www.facebook.com/sonyericsson?v=app_6009294086
(TV advertisement inside)

 

Notice the Playstation certified and Android Icon at bottom right. The first PS Suite certified.

http://www.medianama.com/2008/10/223-sony-ericsson-files-cross-platform-online-gaming-patent-in-india/

Message #73 this thread gives us a date of Feb 2010 for cross platform porting of games internal Sony discussions (methods for controller in PS Suite and an attempt, as much as possible, to patent the method) and the above 2008 for Sony Ericsson. This supports PS Suite was envisioned early on and waiting for Phone hardware to catch-up to older game console performance.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/109351/20110207/ps3-ngp-gamers-cross-platform-cloud.htm

There are two things implied here;

1) Confirmed for PS3 Firmware 3.6, cloud saves of game data that are rumored to also have multi-platform use; PS3 - NGP -Ericsson Cell Phone or PS3 - PC Start a game on the PS3 and continue the game on the NGP.

2) Playing a PS3 game remotely via WiFi on the NGP. If true this would probably be done via OpenGL and a developer leak for a Sony PS Suite UK (England) meeting had talk of shader and graphics use (Calls) being the same and just "working" on PS3- NGP. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/287265/news/sony-ngp-targeting-cross-platform-development-with-ps3/

I suspect that OpenGL calls are now fully functional in the PS3 or with a future update. This was going to be necessary for the Webkit port to the PS3 and probably PSS ports to the PS3.

I suspect that Developers will be encouraged to use OpenGL for the PS3 which will make games easier to write and more cross platform ready for PS Suite as well as give the above feature. The down side is possibly a slightly larger overhead and possibly slightly lower framerate. Who knows, maybe the Sony Cell optimized OpenGL won't affect framerates.

The above may be where the early rumors of the PSP2 having PS3 graphics - power or resolution came from. Same OpenGL calls resulting in the same screen display (NGP at lower resolution).

Shifty; the tie in to PS Suite is that OpenGL calls for graphics will be required for PS Suite ports if the above rumors are true. This impacts all the envisioned Sony ecosystem CE products too.

Re: ports of PS3 games to other platforms and PS suite supporting more features/platforms. "Sony will periodically review and update PS Certified and PS Suite compatibility as the Portable hardware evolves over time."

NGP is now rumored to be powerful enough for PS3 game ports to NGP. NGP is 4 times as powerful as the current iOS tablet and bottom end Android Tablets. By the time NGP is released late 2011, iOS tablets will be half as powerful and within months of the NGP release a new version of the Apple tablet could be using the same chipset with the same performance level.

PS Suite ports of PS3 titles released in 2011 with PS Suite in mind (Open GL used) could be ported late 2012 to other platforms.

 

I think the rumor only refers to the cloud save. The rest may be the author's speculations. I believe Kaz Hirai's didn't mention WiFi or 3G use in detail.

 

Given, but there are two being quoted and one is a developer. What's in play here are cross platform games and OpenGL is the only easy way to support this.

It all ties neatly together if using OpenGL. The "Just works" quote from the developer made the most impression on me.

So for games not pushing the envelope OpenGL can be used and will allow easier PSS ports.

But it depends on the engine being used. There will PS3 - NGP games and PS Suite PS3 - NGP- Cross platform. The latter probably slightly less graphically intense and most likely OpenGL on both the PS3 and NGP.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-sony-ngp-analysis?page=2

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-28-epic-ngp-perfect-for-gears-style-game

My impression is that developers would rather use an engine that is cross platform. I.E. supports OpenGL and DirectX. The PS3, according to posts in this forum, had a poor OpenGL implementation (shaders were slow and buggy) and developer engines used Sony provided lower level calls which are not designed to support cross platform. With cross platform and the coming webkit port, OpenGL must have been rewritten and might now be usable for AAA games on the PS3.

 

You've bolded the point about NGP players playing against PS3 players. That isn't in any way tied to the graphics calls the game is using! That's just a netowrk protocol and access to the same PSN servers. It could be achieved with a DirectX PC playing with a PSGL-version of the same game on PS3.

Still, regards OGL, it makes sense to use a uniform library across devices rather than an interrim format that has to be compiled. I expect PSS games on PS3 to be identical to NGP versions save for higher resolution, like Minis, PSS being the new framework to replace Minis with a far more effective engine. Thus PSS titles would happily run within the limitations of OpenGL on PS3. If Sony are going to write a PSS compiler for PS3, they may as well write a full OGL implementation than write a conversion between PSS's OpenGL calls and lower level access of PS3's hardware.

 

Sorry if I gave a wrong impression. There were two points in my first message and one of them had to do with cross platform play and the second with remote play. The quote in bold supported the first.

Thanks for confirming the logic on this one point OpenGL on the PS3.

With Cross platform, OpenGL is, I think, a given. With Open GL support on the PS3 it would be easily possible to support remote play, a touted feature of the PSP but never fully developed. This is so obvious that the author of the quote thought it implied in Sony press releases.

Beyond remote play, the same application could support a remote XMB screen and access to all PS3 features like a remote desktop application does for PCs (IF the XMB is rewritten with OpenGL calls, a rewrite which I think is coming for the Webkit port and possibly to allow PSS access/ports . Many of the Open source libraries for the NGP will probably be used and they probably take advantage of OpenGL.). It's a feature I think would help sell the NGP. Off topic, I know, but the logic chain is immediate.

It should also be easy to write remote control/play applications for various CE products and services through PSS suite given "Standards" (hardware and software). Sony has been pushing for "Standards" and is a part of multiple non-profit Organizations developing standards for the industry. A list of those organizations might give us an idea of what is planned for use with PS Suite.

Google is also behind Open Source standards and has been purchasing companies with what they must believe is critical IP and releasing it as Open Source.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/playstation-move-coming-to-pc

"PlayStation Move Coming To PC" An attempt to get the "Move" accepted as a standard controller interface on the PC for the eventual PS Suite PC platform?

PS Suite to my mind is not a cross platform language or rather not just the cross platform language "C" but a SUITE of Software tools and processes relying heavily on Hardware and Software standards. Those Hardware and Software standards are what the PS Certified logo is all about. For hardware, we currently have a subset of the NGP hardware set and with the above "Move" coming to the PC another possible, combining touch screen surface management standards (from Android) we could have right or left hand rotation of the move controller being a pinch or expand. For Software Standards we already have many open Source Standards like HTML5, Ultraviolet model, DRM, Plug and Play, Posix & "C", OpenGL, CE-HTML, HbbTV, W3C. GDC or E3 may confirm these for PS Suite and possibly add more.

It's possible that consumers may rely on the Android and PS Certified Logo as well as the Ultraviolet Logo to feel comfortable with future Hardware platform and Media purchases.

 

Apple requiring Sony eReader to use Apple's payment system:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/technology/01apple.html?_r=1&ref=business

 

Titanio found Nikkei's translation of their interview with Kaz Hirai:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25876416&postcount=269

Original link: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20110209/189454/

 

Some translation errors here I think. " we might provide the PSS as a killer application to spread the use of the Google TV." I think should be: we might USE PSS to provide a Google TV killer application to multiple platforms.

There are plans for a Google TV applications via PS Suite to multiple platforms

 

I didn't read the rest of your post carefully (Too long !). I don't think there is a translation error.
PS Suite is a consumer platform, not merely a developer SDK/platform.

 

What is the PlayStation Suite for Consumers beyond the Store and the Games and Applications sold in the Store?

There are three layers;

1) PS Suite for Software developers
2) For platform developers (Hardware) and these allow them to certify their hardware and use the Logo
3) PS Suite Store for consumers

 

Depends. What is FaceBook beyond the web apps and the server farm ?

More than 3 if Sony is good. What about the aggregated content ? What about the community ? What about the transactions ? What about the business models ? etc.

 

OK, I think I see what you are getting at. Support for games and social networking with something like Home might be part of the consumer experience on Android with PSS ported Games. So a PS Suite Store and possibly "Home". Come to think of it, Sony would probably also have some Media presence in PS Suite...

How does this impact the snippet out of your quote.

And then my comment:

Some translation errors here I think. " we might provide the PSS as a killer application to spread the use of the Google TV." I think should be: we might USE PSS to provide a Google TV killer application to multiple platforms.

There are plans for a Killer Google TV application via PS Suite to multiple platforms"

Are you suggesting that Sony is in partnership with Google and a Free Google TV application might be released through PS Suite as one of several "Free" applications to prime the pump, generate press?

There are problems with that starting from the current version of Google TV has the issues you raised and is not currently a killer application. OK, if the Google TV application also returned results from Sony, Hulu, Netflix, your cable company's on-demand, Add provisions to automatically log in and access the movie you select...it might be killer and might overcome objections from the networks. I could see myself using something like that especially if it also had a Vudu like information interface for the media.

Cable companies have provided services like allowing an Xbox360 to play media from a cablebox DVR over the home network and Allowing iOS phones and tablets to schedule cablebox DVR and on-demand recordings remotely. Combine the two and add in Google TV and you have a killer application. http://www.fancast.com/mytv/dvr http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html http://thetechjournal.com/internet/hbo-go-launched-verizon-fios-customers-can-enjoy-at-the-moment.xhtml http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Cablevision-Launches-Network-DVR-In-The-Bronx-112372

Is this what you meant?


So definitely PS Suite will contain, at a minimum, a Free Sony Music, Sony Video, Sony E-Reader and PS Store search applications. It might include something like "Home" for Games and other social networking applications.

I hadn't thought beyond the porting games between platforms.

While I've recognized the cross platform market is larger I am still thinking small and Sony has had BIG plans even beyond what I assumed. Everyone has touched on some part of this new Sony but none have envisioned the entirety. We've argued small picture DRM when the ultraviolet model was big picture DRM.