Deja Vu from the past :)

[Nesh]

I came across this article from 2001 and I get many Dejavu's

Broadband Consoles - A Pipe Dream?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/a_pipedream

Elsewhere in the interview, Gosen hammers home his thoughts on the way Sony and Microsoft are trying to market their products, and slams the multimedia device market, saying that Game Cube is a gaming device first and foremost, and that to do anything else in this market at the moment is suicidal. Gosen also slams his competitors' attempts to integrate gaming with mobile phones, saying that low-level ideas like the recent Pokemon Crystal mobile modem for serving statistics from Nintendo's servers can work, but that multiplayer gaming is not prepared for. He also makes an interesting point about broadband. Both Sony and Microsoft are using key market phraseology like "the centre of the home entertainment network" and "broadband-ready" to get people excited, and even Sega's new deal with Pace is to produce a "home gateway". The whole industry seems to be swooping on new standards such as DVD and the Internet, whilst ignoring what made it special in the first places; the games, or so he says.

Sony is like Nintendo in 2001. They say games are the primary purpose. Not a move that benefited Nintendo. An irony considering Sony's original vision to transform the Playstation platform into an all in one device. Hopefully this was just a PR attack and Sony will look seriously into providing more than just gaming features.
Its quite interesting that Sony's and MS's vision back then never happened (broadband and mobile gaming integration), only to start taking form 1 and 2 generations later. Perhaps MS's vision to use cloud server to augment games is still not ready. The claim that it can augment the performance of games (5T???) sound like the "broadband" fluff of 2001. It didnt take off. Its touted visual enhancements from cloud are practically limited as it appears so far and the benefits from cloud come from elsewhere. In addition MS's TV integration feature is not something that can be accessed by the whole market and it remains to be seen if and how soon a significantly larger market will have access to. In the future this will be a stronger card as the technology will be advanced and established enough for a bigger market to enjoy.

Now there are two things that may happen. Either the PS4 will be like the GC and XBone will be like the PS2 because Sony doesnt look forwards, or XBone will end up like the DC and the PS4 will end up like the PS2 because MS tried to bring features that the market isnt technologically and economically ready to use yet.

Most of us seem to forget that Sega was a very forward thinking company in the past too, grasping opportunities sooner than they could benefit from them. They were the first to try 3D glasses, motion controls, CD's, handhelds with colored and bright displays, integration with handheld devices like DC's PDA like memory unit, etc, (strategies that damaged them than benefited them) but the most notable was trying to implement online gaming (an effort that started on the Genesis), was tried n the Saturn and moved to the DC with plans of an online service. But the market wasnt ready to adopt them and the technology didnt keep up with the vision so the execution could not be fulfilled as visioned. Today all past failed efforts have become the standard. They work. They are strong selling points

We agree with Gosen. When Dreamcast was first launched, the argument was that in time its Internet capability would win the market for it. This was an utter failure. Broadband didn't happen for the people Sega needed it to, and despite the Sony, Sega and Microsoft business plans to the contrary, it still hasn't. Uptake of ADSL in this country is limited to some 50,000 people so far, whereas in the USA, the system is plagued by problems with dodgy providers. Then there's the cost, in both territories. As for cable connections - for the most part, the companies that provide those have their own plans for the service with regard to gaming. Even Sony's plans to introduce broadband in Japan are meeting with problems. All of the companies hinging on this technology want to "pipe DVDs and television directly into your home" amongst other things, but they seem to have grossly underestimated the amount of bandwidth required for such tasks. Even the relatively simple process of streaming a movie using proprietary technology so that customers can pause a program mid-transmission and watch the rest of it saved to their hard-disks is going too far. DVDs running at full pelt usually use about 8Mbps, and many have said that Sony's fibre optic system in Japan, which is set to operate at around 3Mbps will be good only for low-movement scenes. Then there's the claim of a teletext style Internet interface amongst other things.

When I read the above especially the bold it reminds me of the below DF regarding Cloud based augmentations
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming
The two challenges - latency and bandwidth
Economic considerations: why multiplayer makes sense

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony is like Nintendo in 2001. They say games are the primary purpose.

That's only Sony's messaging. PS4 is clearly multifunction like PS3. That's a known quantity now. Sony are saying, going forwards, rather then build more multimedia functionality, the focus has been on improving the game side. Again, that's only their messaging as they target hardcore gamers as early adopters. They'll be investing in Music Unlimited and Video Unlimited and rolling out whatever other services. We've even had a hint from SCEJ about them having intentions for the future of Torne/Nasne.

Now there are two things that may happen. Either the PS4 will be like the GC and XBone will be like the PS2 because Sony doesnt look forwards, or XBone will end up like the DC and the PS4 will end up like the PS2 because MS tried to bring features that the market isnt technologically and economically ready to use yet.

Or they'll both be like PS3 and XB360...

 

[Nesh]

True

 

[Nesh]

Oh BTW regarding the non-gaming features I am concerned how much Sony will evolve in the non-gaming area. Are they going to invest to solutions that make the PS4 competitive enough to the XBone?Of course I expect them to carry over from where the PS3 was left and add some features and improvements. But just shoving more features without improving significantly the experience or provide new solutions in the way the consumer can access non-gaming entertainment isnt exactly forward looking.
It remains to be seen

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Yeah. To be fair, Sony saw the TV, TV, TV... core gamer backlash after the Xbox One reveal and ran with it from a PR standpoint, but they definitely built a multimedia box with the PS4.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Oh BTW regarding the non-gaming features I am concerned how much Sony will evolve in the non-gaming area. Are they going to invest to solutions that make the PS4 competitive enough to the XBone?Of course I expect them to carry over from where the PS3 was left and add some features and improvements. But just shoving more features without improving significantly the experience or provide new solutions in the way the consumer can access non-gaming entertainment isnt exactly forward looking.
It remains to be seen

I think it foolhardy to just copy features from your competitor. I think Sony be considering what needs to improve and addressing that. They've clearly done that regards social gaming (which extends to socialising I guess) with cross-game chat and cross-device chat (mobile chat with PS4 user). They obviously need a better browser too if just to support upcoming HTML5 services. I'm not sure what else they specifically need to target over PS3. Have you any suggestions?

 

[Nesh]

I think it foolhardy to just copy features from your competitor.

I didnt imply to simply copy.

I think Sony be considering what needs to improve and addressing that. They've clearly done that regards social gaming (which extends to socialising I guess) with cross-game chat and cross-device chat (mobile chat with PS4 user).

Thats related to gaming though.Which I think its pretty great. It doesnt look beyond the gaming experience though.

Have you any suggestions?

Well the ability to stream videos from the internet and record would have been nice.
Also about purchasing/renting movies that you can share with other devices other than PSP/PS Vita hasnt been covered AFAIK. And current PS3 features can be evolved to ofer a better user experience
But I am pretty sure there are always new ideas they can come up with. Just because I cant come up with more suggestions, doesnt mean whatever can be done, has already been thought and done

 

[James Car]

Minor nitpick, but NEC was the first with cd based games.

(They were also the first to have a portable with the exact same chipset as the console, and small carts)

/nitpick

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well the ability to stream videos from the internet...

That's already in

and record would have been nice.

Recording from the internet is going to be problematic regards copyright. Recording TV requires a TV tuner which is added expense and most people already have one. An optional TV tuner makes sense as was provided for PS3.

Also about purchasing/renting movies that you can share with other devices other than PSP/PS Vita hasnt been covered AFAIK.

Movies Unlimited is Sony's motion in that direction, but you can also use other services like Netflix/Amazon.

Just because I cant come up with more suggestions, doesnt mean whatever can be done, has already been thought and done

From your own life experiences, you can see functions and services you'd like from a multimedia console. If there's nothing that jumps out at you as a must-have, I'd say Sony's existing featureset, given suitable, expected improvements, is ample enough to be competitive and provide what consumers want.

 

[James Car]

From your own life experiences, you can see functions and services you'd like from a multimedia console. If there's nothing that jumps out at you as a must-have, I'd say Sony's existing featureset, given suitable, expected improvements, is ample enough to be competitive and provide what consumers want.

The main thing that MS is driving at is being connected to the xbl experience on your tv, regardless of what is happening on the tv (watching tv, streaming movies, or gaming).

Essentially, hdmi-in with overlay.

A smart move as it enables a more captive and involved audience, but I'd think Sony could do something similar with a usb dongle + arm chip.

Other than this, I think Sony is smart to reserve 1GB for the OS. There is a lot that can be done in that space, considering last gen MS reserved what 32mb? Even if the feature isn't there now, that space allows a lot of room to grow & optimize.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A smart move as it enables a more captive and involved audience, but I'd think Sony could do something similar with a usb dongle + arm chip.

The USB dongle would provide HDMI in to the console? There's not enough BW, so you'd need a re-encoder on the dongle to compress the video into PS4. It's doable but not ideal. XB1 also benefits from Kinect voice control, and Sony have yet to demonstrate working voice commands. Stereo camera should certainly be able to handle a gesture interface though.

 

[James Car]

The USB dongle would provide HDMI in to the console? There's not enough BW, so you'd need a re-encoder on the dongle to compress the video into PS4. It's doable but not ideal. XB1 also benefits from Kinect voice control, and Sony have yet to demonstrate working voice commands. Stereo camera should certainly be able to handle a gesture interface though.

ps4 has usb3 right? Should be plenty of bandwidth.

As for voice control, as I said previously in the Sony business thread, if Sony doesn't have good R&D in this field, I see no reason why they shouldn't partner up with either Google or Apple for their voice interface (and Sony can get a cut off off their inevitable voice search ad revenue).

Agreed on ps4 eye. If Samsung can get a rough approximation with a single webcam in the smart tv's, I'm sure Sony can get something impressive out the door. Also, I'm not seeing a reason Sony couldn't use one of their infrared lights (in use in their handicams for years) for low light situations. Perhaps in a more expensive "low-light edition" / aka "Premium HD model.

 

[dobwal]

Does hdcp accommodate USB?

In my opinion simply releasing a rev with hdmi in early in the cycle would do.

 

[James Car]

Does hdcp accommodate USB?

I don't think so, but that's where the arm chip (and whatever other hardware necessary) would come into play.

It would be a neat little add-on for those that are interested in such a connected experience.

 

[James Car]

In my opinion simply releasing a rev with hdmi in early in the cycle would do.

As long as it's a different sku. For many people, this would be a waste as it isn't an integral part of the system.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

ps4 has usb3 right? Should be plenty of bandwidth.

You're looking at a theoretical peak BW that might just do it (USB 3 and 1.2 HDMI both require about 5 gbps) but in real use, you won't reach peak on USB, and 1.3 is twice the speed of USB3 making 3D content untenable.

 

[blakjedi]

Minor nitpick, but NEC was the first with cd based games.

(They were also the first to have a portable with the exact same chipset as the console, and small carts)

/nitpick

You are totally correct my good man. That was a hell of a machine and BONK was excellent.

 

[dobwal]

As long as it's a different sku. For many people, this would be a waste as it isn't an integral part of the system.

Nor was HDMI out for the 360.

 

[James Car]

Nor was HDMI out for the 360.

A bit different though, isn't it?

One is a lossless output method. The other has absolutely no bearing on the core experience of the device, but simply enables it to be "always on" and "always notifying you" of events/friends/ads err .. yeah.

The costs associated with hdmi in + overlay I would hope would not be something which Sony force on every gamer regardless of their interest in such a thing.

A new sku in addition to the existing? Sure, why not. I'd still prefer the feature as a usb device purchased separately.

 

[dobwal]

A bit different though, isn't it?

One is a lossless output method. The other has absolutely no bearing on the core experience of the device, but simply enables it to be "always on" and "always notifying you" of events/friends/ads err .. yeah.

The costs associated with hdmi in + overlay I would hope would not be something which Sony force on every gamer regardless of their interest in such a thing.

A new sku in addition to the existing? Sure, why not. I'd still prefer the feature as a usb device purchased separately.

Easy. How do u force overlays on gamers that don't plug anything into the HDMI in?