PlayStation suite

[patsu]

Are you suggesting that Sony is in partnership with Google and a Free Google TV application might be released through PS Suite as one of several "Free" applications to prime the pump, generate press?

I'm not suggesting anything. Sony is in partnership with Google for a few projects, including GoogleTV. Most of Google's apps are web-based. As long as NGP and PS3 have a good web browser, they should be able to work well together.

 

[wco81]

What are games sales like on Android?

Aren't they poor and even the most successful games have gone ad-supported?

So what kind of pricing models will they have for these old games? They would have had a better chance to sell games on iOS. Of course the ASPs are very low but probably still higher than on Android.

 

[patsu]

Sales trend probably still evolving…
http://www.businessinsider.com/android-game-developer-com2us-2010-8

 

[patsu]

Saw the Xperia Play announcement thread on GAF:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25921356&postcount=1

Sony Ericsson unveiled Xperia Play (aka PlayStation Phone) in a press event during the Mobile World Congress 2011 of Barcelona. Kaz Hirai appeared in the conference.

Will be launched this March worldwide, in US with Verizon.

The device will have a 'legendary PS1 game' preloaded, that Pocket Gamer says it will be Crash Bandicoot.

They are getting major support from the mobile phone game developers. Around 20 publishers working in around 50 lauch games.

They confirmed some kind of multiplayer, at least for FIFA.

Hardware and OS

-CPU Snapdragon 1 Ghz
-GPU Adreno
-Capacitative 480 × 854 touchscreen
-Androind 2.3 Gingerbread OS
-119×62×16 mm, 175 gr.
-400 MB internal storage + microSD support
-A-GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth
-Megapixel 5 megapixel camera with led flash in the back
41 million triangles / second
245 million 3D pixels / second

Games

-PlayStation Pocket: Exclusive games for the device.

-PlayStation Suite: PS1 and other games that you can buy using your PSN account and enjoy them here, in NGP (PSP2) or in a PlayStation Certified Android device (mobile phones and tablets with Android 2.3 Gingerbread). Non PS1 games are supposed to be mainly versions of major existing smartphone games (from iOS, Android, etc).

-Android games: typical stuff available in all other Android devices

Quite a few videos in the link.

Engadget impression:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/xperia-play-final-hardware-hands-on/

 

[dobwal]

What are games sales like on Android?

Aren't they poor and even the most successful games have gone ad-supported?

So what kind of pricing models will they have for these old games? They would have had a better chance to sell games on iOS. Of course the ASPs are very low but probably still higher than on Android.

This is the one hidden factor that may negatively affect Sony. Most of the time if you highlight the lack of sales of the Android market especially games on the other tech sites, the forum goers will mention emulators.

If emulators are having a major affect on games sales on Android it may make the PS Suite less viable as PS1 and PS2 games can already be played on Android based phones.

 

[patsu]

There is no game emulators on iOS ?

 

[jeff_rigby]

This is the one hidden factor that may negatively affect Sony. Most of the time if you highlight the lack of sales of the Android market especially games on the other tech sites, the forum goers will mention emulators.

If emulators are having a major affect on games sales on Android it may make the PS Suite less viable as PS1 and PS2 games can already be played on Android based phones.

From Patsu's cite but not posted:

The app market for the iPhone is much larger says Lim, but the real difference was iPhone hardware used to be much better. That made games on the iPhone better and more popular. Now the hardware on Android is much better, and that should start to balance the markets, he thinks.
Of course, with a slew of new Android devices comes the headache of fragmentation.While it's a pain in the butt, the new hardware could help says Lim. As long as the hardware is all above a certain threshold for power, fragmentation might not be too bad.

Emulated games would exacerbate the performance issues mentioned above on Android hardware. The PS Suite port is to Android "C which is not emulated. Add to that, Sony has started with a minimum Android hardware spec that is equal to an iOS portable...at least for then next few months until a new line of iOS is released.

Patsu is providing the (two) links for this point but is not spelling it out. Perhaps to balance out my being too wordy.

I'd like to clear up what may be an incorrect assumption on the part of myself or other posters: " have its target applications running on PSS", "They may need native access for entertainment titles.", "Android is supposed to be platform independent, and will support more architectures. If you dont plan on using this single standout feature, why not just code everything in C/C++."

Correct if wrong.

PS Suite ports to Android are not to Android bytecode to be emulated by the Android engine, but to Android "C".

It is possible for PS Suite to compile to Android bytecode but that would reduce performance and games generally require high levels of performance and suffer under emulators. Google has provided a "C" to Android "C" tool for porting games to Android.

http://droidfreeapps.com/2011/01/apps-written-in-c-and-c-can-now-be-ported-to-android/

A wide variety of video games and game engines have already been written in these languages, and in the latest Android blog post , Google is specifically touting the ease by which they can be modified for Android.

And there is a link to the Android NDK in the above link, a quote from that link follows:

Android applications run in the Dalvik virtual machine. The NDK allows you to implement parts of your applications using native-code languages such as C and C++. This can provide benefits to certain classes of applications, in the form of reuse of existing code and in some cases increased speed.

The NDK provides:

A set of tools and build files used to generate native code libraries from C and C++ sources
A way to embed the corresponding native libraries into an application package file (.apk) that can be deployed on Android devices
A set of native system headers and libraries that will be supported in all future versions of the Android platform, starting from Android 1.5. Applications that use native activities must be run on Android 2.3 or later.
Documentation, samples, and tutorials
The latest release of the NDK supports these ARM instruction sets:

ARMv5TE (including Thumb-1 instructions)
ARMv7-A (including Thumb-2 and VFPv3-D16 instructions, with optional support for NEON/VFPv3-D32 instructions)

So which is it, PS Suite is "C" to Android "C" or bytecode?

The method used would affect how PS Suite was implemented. For instance, non-bytecode would be processor dependent and only ARM (mentioned above) processors are supported at the present time. There are probably other issues. One, since compiling to native language was mentioned might require, if other processors are eventually supported, multiple versions for different processor families. There must be some provision in Gingerbread for a communication with the Android store that would select and only display the correct application for your platform. Who would be in charge of compiling to different CPU families? Each hardware platform developer who would get a cut? This adds another layer to the hardware developer level in the three levels for PS Suite I mentioned.

Load times for games from SD memory are going to be terrible. Sony's Duo SD memory would be twice as fast. That might give that division of Sony a kick in profits.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I'm not suggesting anything. Sony is in partnership with Google for a few projects, including GoogleTV. Most of Google's apps are web-based. As long as NGP and PS3 have a good web browser, they should be able to work well together.

I don't think so. Sony wouldn't provide a Killer Google App using javascript as that that wouldn't protect their IP. Also a killer app should have support for DRM, might interface with a Cable company's DVR and also have other features easier to support with "C" or would need IP protection (DRM). The "C" compiled to native language app can call and use webkit and that would still satisfy most of the conditions to protect IP.

PS Suite will probably contain applications that will access Google web features. Some will be free, all will probably be "C". Shifty was I believe correct on this issue. Sony will probably have a few free Widgets, will probably support widgets on their platforms.

Google TV code is to be released this year which means Sony can have access to it for PS Suite.

http://code.google.com/tv/web/faq.html#whensdkaddon

When will the SDK add-on for Google TV be available to developers?
The SDK add-on with Google TV-specific extensions will be available a few months after first product availability.
Does Chrome on Google TV support the H.264 video codec?
Yes, Chrome on Google TV supports videos encoded with the H.264 video codec using the HTML5 <video> tag.
Which version of Chrome will Google TV ship with?
Google TV will ship with Chrome 5.0. However, it will get upgraded with over-the-air updates.
Will Flash websites work with Google TV?
Yes. Google TV supports Flash 10.1 and hence Flash websites will work.
If Google TV is running the Chrome browser, is it capable of running Native Client apps?
We will not have native client app support at initial product availability.
Will there be Android Market on Google TV? When will it be available?
Android market would be available on Google TV in 2011. We will have more information to share about Android Market and an SDK add-on in a few months.
What version of Android is Google TV running?
Google TV will run on Android 2.1 at initial product availability. However, it can be upgraded over-the-air (OTA) to a higher version.

That Sony was talking about eventually using PS Suite to port to Google TV means Google TV will be updated to support 2.3.

 

[makattack]

So which is it, PS Suite is "C" to Android "C" or bytecode?

The method used would affect how PS Suite was implemented. For instance, non-bytecode would be processor dependent and only ARM (mentioned above) processors are supported at the present time. There are probably other issues. One, since compiling to native language was mentioned might require, if other processors are eventually supported, multiple versions for different processor families. There must be some provision in Gingerbread for a communication with the Android store that would select and only display the correct application for your platform. Who would be in charge of compiling to different CPU families? Each hardware platform developer who would get a cut? This adds another layer to the hardware developer level in the three levels for PS Suite I mentioned.

Load times for games from SD memory are going to be terrible. Sony's Duo SD memory would be twice as fast. That might give that division of Sony a kick in profits.

You can answer all your questions by reading the appropriate documentation on android.com

None of this is new. Ever since the very earliest incarnation of the Android Market place, different phones, carriers, and even phone vendors can have specific id's associated with apps such that users see different content on the android market when they connect from specific devices/carriers.

For example, when I had the G1 from T-Mobile, Namco's Pac Man was a free download on my phone. Not so for my friends with Verizon and the Motorola Droid. Angry Birds is a free, ad supported app for me, but is a 99 cent app for another friend on Virgin -- of course, he can just simply download the app from the publishers website, for free.

 

[jeff_rigby]

You can answer all your questions by reading the appropriate documentation on android.com

None of this is new. Ever since the very earliest incarnation of the Android Market place, different phones, carriers, and even phone vendors can have specific id's associated with apps such that users see different content on the android market when they connect from specific devices/carriers.

For example, when I had the G1 from T-Mobile, Namco's Pac Man was a free download on my phone. Not so for my friends with Verizon and the Motorola Droid. Angry Birds is a free, ad supported app for me, but is a 99 cent app for another friend on Virgin -- of course, he can just simply download the app from the publishers website, for free.

Which can be a marketing issue not Android hardware compatibility. I understand the same process could be used for processor family and "C" compatibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3pdWBlZ34&feature=player_embedded

Thanks. The video is a must watch for PS Suite - Android 2.3 optimized for game development

Lots of talk about native access. So I gather PS Suite is 'C" to Android "C", that was the big question.

 

[jeff_rigby]

http://www.google.com/events/gdc/2011/

GDC 2011 Cloud Gaming: Chrome Wants To Play

As the previous video link indicated, Android 2.3 includes many updates to allow Games and Google is to have a presence at the 2011 GDC. Tie-ins to Sony and PS Suite?

Interested in writing games for Android? Programming games with HTML5? Want to sell your game to 120 million Chrome users? Upload gameplay footage to YouTube? Make money with in-game ads? Run scalable online game services on App Engine? Then join us in San Francisco at the Game Developers Conference!

This year at GDC there will be two full Developer Days full of Google information. Day One will introduce Chrome, Native Client, the YouTube game APIs, and App Engine. Day Two is dedicated exclusively to Android. Both days feature hardcore technical information delivered by Google engineers. You'll be able to get details on Google products and platforms straight from the source. A GDC Summits and Tutorials pass or All Access pass gets you in the door.

We'll also have a booth on the show floor, where you can try out Google gaming products and ask questions. Stop by and relax for a bit in our GoogleTV living room, take a look at the latest Android devices, and have a chat with our knowledgeable booth staff.

We're looking forward to seeing you in San Francisco!

Web DevDay | Feb 28, 2011

10:00 - 11:00 HTML5 and Other Modern Browser Game Tech
11:15 - 12:15 Google Cloud for Game Developers
12:30 - 1:30 Lunch/Office Hours
1:45 - 2:45 WebGL Techniques and Performance
3:00 - 4:00 High Performance Game Programming In a Browser With Native Client
4:15 - 5:15 YouTube APIs: Game Video Integration Process and Benefits

Android DevDay | Mar 1, 2011

10:00 - 11:00 Building Aggressively Compatible Android Games
11:15 - 12:15 C++ on Android Just Got Better: The New NDK
12:30 - 1:30 Lunch/Office hours
1:45 - 2:45 Android Graphics Deep Dive
3:00 - 4:00 Audio
4:15 - 5:15 Android, App Engine, and the LVL: Using Google's infrastructure to securely serve application data

Sponsored Sessions Wed, Mar 2

1:30 p.m. Publishing Games through Android Market

Thurs, Mar 3
10:30 p.m. Mobile Monetization Panel: Google's Charles Yim Interviews Top Game Developers

Invited Sessions
Mon, Feb 28
1:45 p.m. REPLICA ISLAND: Building a Successful Android Game
Mon, Feb 28
4:15 p.m. Games on Smart TVs: Lessons Learned from the Development of GoogleTV
Mon, Feb 28
4:15 p.m. Creating a Social, Location-based Smartphone Game in 5 Weeks

SPEAKER/S: Ian Ni-Lewis (Google) and Andres Ferrate (Google)
DAY / TIME / LOCATION: Monday 4:15- 5:15 Room 134, North Hall
TRACK / FORMAT: Social & Online Games Summit / Lecture
DESCRIPTION: For well over a decade technologists have been heralding the coming of the converged living room experience with little to show for it. Today, convergence isn't coming, its here. New low-power processors are allowing no-compromises Web browsers to be combined with fully functional TVs and set-top boxes into a new kind of interactive entertainment device -- the Smart TV. What does the market for Smart TVs look like, and how will it impact the world of gaming?

In this session, Google engineers Andres Ferrate and Ian Ni-Lewis will share the lessons learned from developing Google's Smart TV platform, GoogleTV. Join us as we:
- Examine the emergence of Internet-enabled TV platforms and the promise they hold for consumers.
- Discuss how gaming developers can begin taking advantage of open platforms to build compelling and engaging gaming applications that bring the best of the Web together with the best of TV.
- Look to the future of interactive gaming and application development and the opportunities in store for a vibrant developer community.

http://schedule.gdconf.com/sessions/track/Social---Online-Games-Summit

Interesting; Sony's PS Suite playbook taken in part out of Google's lectures or points on gaming.

 

[dobwal]

There is no game emulators on iOS ?

None that I know of that are sold in the App Store and available without jailbreaking. Emulators on sold on Google Marketplace and some don't require rooting meaning there available to general users.

You still have to side load the games, but the emulators being allowed on the marketplace act as a marketing tool. Its the way I found out about the emulators when I saw several on the marketplace while looking for games right after I purchased my Captivate. I was enticed by the prospect but Im morally opposed to pirating so I made no use of them.

 

[patsu]

If it's legal, it may change in the future...
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/32136/Hudson_Releases_TurboGrafx16_GameBox_Emulator_For_iOS.php

Veteran console games publisher Hudson has released TurboGrafx-16 GameBox, a free iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch download featuring many of the classic NEC console's greatest hits available as in-app purchases priced at $2.99 each.

 

[patsu]

I don't think so. Sony wouldn't provide a Killer Google App using javascript as that that wouldn't protect their IP. Also a killer app should have support for DRM, might interface with a Cable company's DVR and also have other features easier to support with "C" or would need IP protection (DRM). The "C" compiled to native language app can call and use webkit and that would still satisfy most of the conditions to protect IP.

PS Suite will probably contain applications that will access Google web features. Some will be free, all will probably be "C". Shifty was I believe correct on this issue. Sony will probably have a few free Widgets, will probably support widgets on their platforms.

I meant Google's own applications like gmail, maps, search, and other web apps.

For native or Android TV apps, I suspect they need to solve the OS and hardware issues first. TV has a huge screen these days, GoogleTV for example doesn't seem to have enough power to command it (It's too slow).

 

[patsu]

What are games sales like on Android?

Aren't they poor and even the most successful games have gone ad-supported?

So what kind of pricing models will they have for these old games? They would have had a better chance to sell games on iOS. Of course the ASPs are very low but probably still higher than on Android.

Another cellphone software+content sales related article:
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/3303..._Less_Ad_Revenue_Per_User_Than_Other_Apps.php

An analysis of popular smartphone apps shows that games bring in less revenue per user than utility and entertainment apps, with iPhone revenues outpacing Android revenues in all categories.

A study by mobile ad exchange Mobclix looked at free apps with over 500,000 downloads and 75,000 active users, defined as people using the app for at least five minutes three times a week. These popular apps averaged two weeks in the top ten list of their respective app store categories.

In the gaming category, the 50 apps studied generated an average of $4 per user on iOS, but only $1.90 on the Android platform, suggesting advertisers may be placing a premium on users of Apple devices.

On both platforms, however, games generated less revenue per active user than apps in the utilities and entertainment categories. Regularly used iPhone utilities, for instance, generated an average of $9.50 in monthly advertising revenue per user, and even Android entertainment apps averaged $4.90 per user.

Mobclix's data doesn't take into account specific usage time or ad impression data for the included apps, so its unclear whether these differences represent different ad rates or simply varied usage patterns among app types and platforms.

The study also doesn't take into account revenue from virtual goods...

 

[corduroygt]

Sony S1, a 9.4" Playstation certified tablet:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/16/exclusive-sony-s1-brings-qriocity-to-9-4-inch-honeycomb-table/

 

[patsu]

They _seem_ to be moving quickly.

How big is iPad ?

So, price and ship date? We're told that the target price for the WiFi-only version of the S1 was meant to match the iPad but has recently been bumped to $599 (a $100 premium) with a planned September ship -- a date that has already slipped several times. Of course, any or all of this could change before then, or maybe the whole project gets canned.

Wonder if it has a 3D screen. I think I'll get a new iPhone (since I lost mine), and an S1 pad. Then wait and see on the NGP.

EDIT: How does the Tegra 2 compare to what's in NGP ?

 

[NathansFortune]

Tegra 2: 2xA9 cores, ULV GPU by Nvidia.
NGP: 4xA9 cores, SGX543MP4+ which is better than the Tegra 2 GPU.

Tegra 2 has other stuff like a video encoder that NGP doesn't need, otherwise it is weaker.

 

[patsu]

Opinion: Sony’s Portable-Game Strategy Lacks Vision
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/02/sony-playstation-tablet-xperia/

In a Super Bowl commercial earlier this month, Sony officially announced the company’s worst-kept secret since its last worst-kept secret: the Xperia Play, an Android phone with PlayStation-style buttons that slide out from the bottom.

…

The tech site has it on good authority that Sony is prepping an Android gaming tablet for this fall that might come preloaded with PSone software.

Is anyone else starting to wonder if all this is just going to confuse the hell out of people?

…

Sega had a finger in every pie back then, and look how well that worked out; a few years later the company was out of the game hardware business.

…


But Apple and Nintendo at least know who they are. Apple has two very similar devices that play a lot of the same content. Neither of them has a single button, and Apple doesn’t make any of the games. Instead, it is leading the charge of the garage-developed, digitally distributed touch-based game.

Nintendo, for all its reluctance to fully embrace the overwhelming convenience of download games, has at least put a stake in the ground on the side of the traditional boxed game experience, which is where its strengths lie. Not to mention the unique (for now!) experience of glasses-free 3-D.

In contrast, Sony’s strategy is a bucket of mud and an empty wall. To be sure, this is a company that knows how to make impressive hardware. Developers are drooling over NGP. Wired.com’s writer enjoyed his time with Xperia Play. Engadget’s source loves the PlayStation tablet’s elegant curved grip. Sony does not lack good product. What Sony lacks is a vision.

…

Today’s Sony has no clear focus, and it’s going to have a tough time convincing consumers to buy any of these devices unless it finds one.

 

[patsu]

Xperia Play going GSM:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/01/xperia-play-goes-back-to-the-fcc-this-time-with-gsm/

We're all familiar with this handset by now, but what we weren't suspecting (although we have yet to finish our first cup of coffee) to see a GSM version of the Xperia Play come through the FCC this sunny Tuesday morning.

….

Update: Further examination of the docs reveal that this bad boy has global GSM bands and 900 / 2100MHz 3G, which is primarily used in Europe and Asia.