PlayStation suite

[rabidrabbit]

Hah, Jack Tretton's leak if true.

It would be rad if I can use my PS3 as a server to serve out stuff to the PSP2 and PSP Suite devices in my vaccinity.

If I were to buy PSP2, I'd buy it day 1. The first batch of Sony devices usually have the best components (based on PSP and PS3). The subsequent ones use cheaper parts.

I agree. I've bought all my Sony consoles from first 'batch', and they've been quality pieces of kit, only the later iterations' lower power consumption and diminished noise have been improvements.
I still have the original PlayStation somewhere, and last I played with it it worked 100%, the EU launch PS2 is working 100%, Japan launch PSP is working 100% if only I replaced the battery. Only the PS3 has given me the YLOD before well deserved retirement, but after giving it a little heat treatment and changing te thermal paste it's working 100%.

 

[Farid]

Am I the only one actually more interested to see where the PS-Suite will end up... besides useless smartphones?

Android based tablets. And maybe future Android based Netbooks and other appliances (GoogleTV, maybe?).

 

[NathansFortune]

I'm wondering if they will get this on iPad at some point.

Apple will never allow it on iOS.

It would be like Sony allowing Xbox Live and XNA on PS3/NGP. It's not going to happen.

 

[Arwin]

Apple will never allow it on iOS.

It would be like Sony allowing Xbox Live and XNA on PS3/NGP. It's not going to happen.

I don't expect that to happen either. The Android alliance may not even want it to ... On the other hand, Apple lost the case against outlawing cross-platform development tools, so if they'd want to they could add support to the SDK for building to iOS (or iOS code).

 

[frogblast]

Apple will never allow it on iOS.

It would be like Sony allowing Xbox Live and XNA on PS3/NGP. It's not going to happen.

Except that there already are several competing social gaming networks available for iOS, and they don't seem to be having any problems with Apple (OpenFeint, Crystal, GameSpy).

 

[NathansFortune]

This isn't a gaming social network. It is basically the PSN store made for phones and other licensed devices. Apple aren't going to allow another store onto their devices, especially one sponsored and run by a direct competitor.

 

[patsu]

I wonder if Sony will sell dual stick extended casing for Android phones and pads in the future.

 

[patsu]

As expected, Playstation Suite Could Support Other Platforms:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/01/29/hirai_on_pss/

As Sony hopes to make use of the millions of Android compatible sets throughout the world, they're not doing such things as selecting partners and the like. "We have a completely open stance," said Hirai. "With carriers and with hand set makers."

Sony's openness with PSS appears to extend even beyond Android. "There are a variety of OSes," said Hirai. "But we're focusing first on Android. There's also Windows, iOS and so forth, but we don't have the resources to make it compatible with everything from the start."

Even within the Android world, Sony is focusing on one particular area first: smartphones. Tablets will come next, according to Hirai. Everything seems to depend on user adoption. "We're not ruling out PSS even on products like Sony Internet TV Powered by Google (Google TV) if adoption rate increases, or if it will help push adoption greatly."

PlayStation Suite software will in general work on any Android device, said Hirai. However, in general, there's no guarantee about response time and key positioning. That's where the PlayStation Certified licensing program comes into play. PlayStation Certified is an assurance that the device will run PlayStation spec software well.

Sony will have a review process in place for PlayStation Suite software, similar to the review process it has had in place for its past consoles. Through this, Sony hopes to establish an ecosystem that runs on Sony certified hardware, differentiating PlayStation Suite from the anything-goes PC world.

Software creators will likely have to pay royalties to Sony. This is something that Hirai says is currently under investigation. The model will be revenue sharing -- that is, Sony will get a cut of profits. Sony has not yet started discussions about this area, discussions that Hirai said would have to involve the carriers.

It's a dangerous move to reveal so much so early. I guess he may not have a choice since even a casual observer like me could guess the intention.

Hopefully, Sony can roll out a Playstation Suite for PS3 fast. At least it would help secure a large user base.

 

[Arwin]

Hopefully, Sony can roll out a Playstation Suite for PS3 fast. At least it would help secure a large user base.

I don't think its dangerous. It should be an indication of where they are at this point, which is n the phase where talks with phone manufacturors are starting and deals with carriers should be made. And that basically means that either the information will leak, or come from Sony. Generally better if it comes from Sony.

It is a very powerful stance that Sony has taken, and a very necessary and timely one. iOS has Apple who does this work, and for Windows Phone 7 clearly Microsoft is going in this direction with XNA and Live support for it. Everyone involved with Android needs someone to do this, and Google can either choose to do this themselves, or have Sony step in.

I think a lot of parties involved with Android, developers and hardware manufacturors alike, see the advantages here. There are risks too, sure, if Sony can't pull it off on the software side properly, but I think they have a good shot here. I don't see anyone else do this for Android on the short term.

 

[jeff_rigby]

All I have to say is Wow. So much information so soon and all of it amazing -riveting.

Shifty, well done. I don't know where you got the time to digest and regurgitate a GEM of a summary so quickly. Thanks NathansFortune for the industry information. Every one posting so far has been spot on and amazingly informed.

Things are looking up for Sony. It kinda makes me think, but what about the PS3?

 

[makattack]

IMHO Sony finally did the right thing with PS-Suite... well almost... sounds quite stupid if the PSP2 wouldnt just run the same Android packages but has to be targeted explicitly.

Why stupid? Unless the PSP2 OS is Android, or has a dual boot type of setup, it would naturally need a cross-compiled version. It would be similar to the 360, Zune, Win7, WinPhone7 relationship in regards to the XNA Game Developers kit. You create an application, then target/cross-compile it for those different devices because they all have different processors/OS'

Similarly, Android has a regular java based Android SDK/API, along with a native API (NDK) for C/C++ source. It seems obvious to me that if you're developing PS-Suite games, you might be using the NDK for CPU intensive applications or to access low level graphics APIs:

The NDK provides:

A set of tools and build files used to generate native code libraries from C and C++ sources
A way to embed the corresponding native libraries into an application package file (.apk) that can be deployed on Android devices
A set of native system headers and libraries that will be supported in all future versions of the Android platform, starting from Android 1.5. Applications that use native activities must be run on Android 2.3 or later.
Documentation, samples, and tutorials
The latest release of the NDK supports these ARM instruction sets:

ARMv5TE (including Thumb-1 instructions)
ARMv7-A (including Thumb-2 and VFPv3-D16 instructions, with optional support for NEON/VFPv3-D32 instructions)
Future releases of the NDK will also support:

x86 instructions (see CPU-ARCH-ABIS.HTML for more information)
ARMv5TE machine code will run on all ARM-based Android devices. ARMv7-A will run only on devices such as the Verizon Droid or Google Nexus One that have a compatible CPU. The main difference between the two instruction sets is that ARMv7-A supports hardware FPU, Thumb-2, and NEON instructions. You can target either or both of the instruction sets — ARMv5TE is the default, but switching to ARMv7-A is as easy as adding a single line to the application's Application.mk file, without needing to change anything else in the file. You can also build for both architectures at the same time and have everything stored in the final .apk. Complete information is provided in the CPU-ARCH-ABIS.HTML in the NDK package.

The NDK provides stable headers for libc (the C library), libm (the Math library), OpenGL ES (3D graphics library), the JNI interface, and other libraries, as listed in the Development Tools section.

 

[Npl]

Why stupid? Unless the PSP2 OS is Android, or has a dual boot type of setup, it would naturally need a cross-compiled version. It would be similar to the 360, Zune, Win7, WinPhone7 relationship in regards to the XNA Game Developers kit. You create an application, then target/cross-compile it for those different devices because they all have different processors/OS'

Similarly, Android has a regular java based Android SDK/API, along with a native API (NDK) for C/C++ source. It seems obvious to me that if you're developing PS-Suite games, you might be using the NDK for CPU intensive applications or to access low level graphics APIs:

Id restrict the PS Suite stuff to the "Android Java SDK", that way you arent bound to ARM. ARM is popular on Smartphones (or rather totally dominant) but not on CE Devices (BD Player, Settop boxes, media hubs, etc).

Native stuff should be restricted to libraries provided by the Android / PSSuite. If you are hacking into CPU or other hardware directly (or even expect Linux running underneath it), then using Android is a bad idea anyway.

 

[patsu]

They may need native access for entertainment titles.

For apps that are not so demanding (e.g., can run on TV), they can be built on even higher level tools. e.g., if someone port a WebKit over to PS Suite, it will achieve the effect you want for applications like VUDU.

 

[Npl]

They may need native access for entertainment titles.

then developing native PSP2 games would be a better idea?

Android is supposed to be platform independent, and will support more architectures. If you dont plan on using this single standout feature, why not just code everything in C/C++ (That would make ports to ios easier aswell).
If Android failed to provide a good enough framework for games then thats what PSSuite should fix.

 

[makattack]

They may need native access for entertainment titles.

For apps that are not so demanding (e.g., can run on TV), they can be built on even higher level tools. e.g., if someone port a WebKit over to PS Suite, it will achieve the effect you want for applications like VUDU.

Considering PSSuite will be running ontop of Android or even iOS, there is no need to port webkit over.

http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/package-summary.html

It would only be necessary to port webkit over to any other platform that PSSuite ends up supporting... perhaps WebOS, etc... though I'm not familiar with it nor the Nokia OS...

 

[patsu]

then developing native PSP2 games would be a better idea?

Android is supposed to be platform independent, and will support more architectures. If you dont plan on using this single standout feature, why not just code everything in C/C++ (That would make ports to ios easier aswell).
If Android failed to provide a good enough framework for games then thats what PSSuite should fix.

NGP is striving for home console level kind of gaming experience. If developers want to do that, they'd do NGP native games. If it's a generic entertainment experience, then PS Suite may be more apt.

iOS still uses Objective C, or have I lost touch ?

Considering PSSuite will be running ontop of Android or even iOS, there is no need to port webkit over.

http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/package-summary.html

It would only be necessary to port webkit over to any other platform that PSSuite ends up supporting... perhaps WebOS, etc... though I'm not familiar with it nor the Nokia OS...

Yes, on Android, iOS and Windows, no WebKit is needed. Ideally, from Sony's perspective, it's better to strike an agreement with say… Opera or FireFox to have PS Suite version so that from now on, HTML5 will always be a part of PS Suite experience (as well).

 

[jeff_rigby]

NGP is striving for home console level kind of gaming experience. If developers want to do that, they'd do NGP native games. If it's a generic entertainment experience, then PS Suite may be more apt.

iOS still uses Objective C, or have I lost touch ?



Yes, on Android, iOS and Windows, no WebKit is needed. Ideally, from Sony's perspective, it's better to strike an agreement with say… Opera or FireFox to have PS Suite version so that from now on, HTML5 will always be a part of PS Suite experience (as well).

I lost the point here. Correct me if I'm wrong;

Edit: Big question first is the web browser in the NGP. Is it webkit or Chrome which supports other applications or is it Opera and does Opera support other applications or will Webkit also have to be on the platform?

IF you are relying on Webkit couldn't you just create a Widget, that would be truly cross platform by it'self. There is even a Standard that Webkit, Opera, Firefox and others are following for 100% compatibility. I assume that Chrome follows the same standards and Chrome is part of Android.

IF PS suite, the minimum hardware/software target is top end 2011 Android 2.3 Handhelds which also supports minimum specs for Android Tablets. Considering the performance of these new platforms, a PS1 game can be played using the less efficient Android engine. It's then compatible over a wide range of hardware because the Android engine interprets instructions to allow cross (hardware) platform. Edit: PS Suite ports to Android may be "C" ports and native language.

The whole point of the cross-platform revolution many of us have seen coming, made possible by newer hardware and efforts by Google and others to have vastly more efficient engines with JIT compiling of code, is to allow for a larger customer base and with a Web brower Javascript engine the same.

Google and Sony HAVE been working together on PS Suite (mentioned in recent News articles). I don't remember anyone mentioning the big Gorilla in publishing namely DRM, protecting your investment. I suspect we will soon hear that Google, who recently purchased Widevine, a DRM company with multiple patents and IP for DRM, is going to release DRM systems for Android both for Media and Programs. Without this PS Suite would not be possible.

I suspect that DRM will be added to developer code by Sony and only Sony and Google (need to know) will have access to the routines and method(s) used.

I would guess that adding another platform (iOS, CE platforms, PS3 and more) to PS Suite has a number of issues that must be addressed and a large one would be DRM. A library of industry standard OS support routines is probably another. Looking at the Android OS and Sony SNAP developer program, many of the Open Source compiled to native language OS support routines are similar and may have the same source; Next Step - Linux - Apple - Webkit and more.

I would guess that the PSP2 OS has an even closer correlation to the open source routines used by Android than even the Sony SNAP developer program had.

The PS3 is missing many of the libraries needed to allow for a PS Suite path for Applications and games from PSP2 to PS3. This will probably be corrected during the Webkit port to the PS3. I'm guessing for PS Suite games the OpenGL index to PS3 Graphics routines need to be in PS3 firmware. I don't think they are now but the Webkit port is based on Cairo which will use OpenGL calls. SQLite is another of the Open Source library of routines needed for webkit HTML5 and is listed in the Snap developer library and the Android OS library. Those are just two examples I'm sure of given my limited knowledge.

Porting PS Suite to CE equipment for example Broadcom SOC used in 2011 TV's and blu-ray players now uses many of the Open Source routines or proprietary but similar enough to support those required by Webkit and Opera. The SOC supports a full OS of routines which I would guess are similar or exactly the same as Android and possibly the NGP and are based on a Linux kernel 2.6, I.E. POSIX.

 

[patsu]

I lost the point here. Correct me if I'm wrong, in summary;

IF you are relying on Webkit couldn't you just create a Widget, that would be truly cross platform by it'self. There is even a Standard that Webkit, Opera, Firefox and others are following for 100% compatibility. I assume that Chrome follows the same standards and Chrome is part of Android.

In the mean time, it'd be Opera since Sony signed an agreement to bring it to Bravias and Blu-ray players.

It's just a user expectation thing to define what exactly PS Suite include (e.g., will Playstation always include a browser ? If so, which one). WebKit is different on different devices.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It would only be necessary to port webkit over to any other platform that PSSuite ends up supporting... perhaps WebOS, etc... though I'm not familiar with it nor the Nokia OS...

But then you're using two different implementations, which means you can't trust compatibility. If Sony are going to implement their own webkit in PSS for platforms that don't have OS support, it makes sense to extend that webkit to all platforms for continuity. Unless at the moment they are being 'cheap' (or rather taking a wait-and-see approach), will use local OS resources, and then see about implementing features on other platforms as needed.

 

[jeff_rigby]

In the mean time, it'd be Opera since Sony signed an agreement to bring it to Bravias and Blu-ray players.

It's just a user expectation thing to define what exactly PS Suite include (e.g., will Playstation always include a browser ? If so, which one). WebKit is different on different devices.

But Widgets are evolving to be 100% compatible with the W3C standard. Opera has stated that their widgets are 100% W3C compatible. Which combined with Opera supporting HbbTV and is the first besides a vanilla Webkit to be compatible with the Broadcom SOC may be why Sony is using Opera. Being compatible with the Broadcom SOC may mean that Opera can also be easily be used for NGP too.

WC3 requires a digital signature for the Widget package and has standards for black and white lists.

Opera could still make it into the PS3.