RAGE : It Deserves its own thread now!

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I have complete trust in Carmack's ability to solve that.

Actually, he's been quite conscious about it with Doom3, so it's reasonable to assume that he'll pay attention to it with tech 5 too. The man does care about image quality...
 
RenegadeRocks said:
I thought the Mega Texturing means no-limits on the the layering of textures on an model, without any affect on the memory usage, creating a highly detailed look. Does it also mean Free AF and Higher res textures ? If yes, then it would be first of its kind as I don't see any game with AF this gen(at least, the ones I bought).
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That's an interesting question... they do have to access the maps with their own code AFAIK, can't rely on automatic mip mapping and such - so they might be able to optimize the virtual memory system to support AF as well...
 
I apologise in advance but I'm going to repost something I posted in another (id games-oriented) forum.

My thoughts on the mag article.

The good:
  • Even though it's hard to judge from mag scans, the graphics look better than before, especially the environments. The mutant models do seem a bit too low-poly for my taste but everything else looks superb. The texture quality in the rocky formations looks much, much better. The particle effects look more convincing (though obviously their motion and animation are more important) and the ambient light contribution is much more realistic than before.
  • The emphasis on the Authority present in the teaser site doesn't seem quite as strong in the gameplay description we are given, which I liked; the teaser site had too much of a HL2 vibe for my taste.
  • The open world concept seems to be a reality and not yet another thing that was put aside when development got harder (see Alan Wake). I have no illusions about this being like FO3 but from the description it does seem like we're going to be allowed to roam and take our time. Being able to carry on after the "ending" was also great news.
  • Keeping the same car thoughout and being able to upgrade it. It'd be even better if we could customise it (think tags in CS).
  • Upgrading weapons - though this could be something like Quake 4 which was too simplistic and pretty much like finding a new weapons. I'd like to see a system similar to what Crysis has.
  • Turrets. Building or buying them is great.
  • Looting corpses of enemies. I don't like that we're presented with a screen rather than picking up the dropped loot but hey, it's an improvement.

The bad:
  • Doom 3 was too long? Can we please get some sort of Super Mario Bros. world warp thingie so that ADD sufferers can have their fun and those of us that enjoy 25 hour games get ours too? Sorry but I just can't wrap my head around this. I can understand people not liking the dark, not having a torch at the same time as the weapon, the monster closets and can even understand people's arguments about the low-poly heads but if you think a game is dragging for too long just skip to the end boss fight! Don't lobby for 10 or even 5 hour games (Prey, Max Payne, etc.) just because you are happy to pay 50 euros to see an ending cinematic, hot damnit. And I wonder how many of those actually even buy their games (and with their own money, not their parents') because if they did, they'd appreciate length a whole lot more. Or better yet, sell a game for 20 euros and then sell the middle parts as an extra 30euro DLC for those of us that want to play a whole game. In previous interviews they had mentioned Rage would be 20 hours, why the vague remarks now?
  • Nameless silent protagonist... yet again. Nameless, okay. Silent? Why? Rage is supposed to have more story, dialogues, merchants, quests, etc. Don't tell me I'll have to suffer through contrived dialogue like in HL2 just so the designers can workaround the silent hero decision.
  • Not letting the designers use the mouse. So, the levels are all going to be horizontal with no blind corners, no slits for precise shots and huge amounts of artificial cover? I get why they're focusing on the controller but while something like (auto)aiming, A.I. or turning speed can be tweaked for controller or keyb/rodent, level layout can't and I'd hate to have the equivalent of Quake 3's tutorial map just because it's hard to aim up/down on the controller.
  • The protagonist can raise himself from death? I hope there's been some sort of misunderstanding or Willits not taking his morning coffee or something because if they pull a Prey on this one, it's game over (pun intended). The health regen is bad enough (Why don't they keep that for the easy and medium settings?)

The ugly:
  • Quoting from the article: "We do have some plans for multiplayer, but it isn't something we want to get into now [...] we'd hate to say something and have to remove it [...]". No mention of the previously promised COOP? (See here, here, here, or here). One of the, if not the most important, features that first interested me into the game. Very close to being a deal-breaker at this point.
  • So, PC version coming out on 3 DVDs or what? Unlike XBOX players we all have HDDs, we already have to install the whole thing so not mentioning the PC version will ship on 3 DVDs is troubling.

I was also disappointed to see that the usual explanation for the no simultaneous torch/weapon decision (a conscious design decision to increase tension) was "replaced" by a performance consideration.

Anyway, I hope us PC gamers don't get the shaft (for the nth time) and that the game isn't crippled by design decisions aimed at making the game ADD/all-thumbs friendly. I get that the console market is their focus but they also said the PC is an equal partner and not a "port". Driving all design decisions for the console crowd does not seem like an equal partnership to me. Game looks beautiful though.
 
Not letting the designers use the mouse. So, the levels are all going to be horizontal with no blind corners, no slits for precise shots and huge amounts of artificial cover? I get why they're focusing on the controller but while something like (auto)aiming, A.I. or turning speed can be tweaked for controller or keyb/rodent, level layout can't and I'd hate to have the equivalent of Quake 3's tutorial map just because it's hard to aim up/down on the controller.
Click to expand...

This part might have something to do with the driving + FPS gameplay. Think about it, there's no middle ground. Either the controls for driving is complete ass on keyboard, or the FPS aiming is complete ass because it's on dual analog. It's like you're screwed either way. I guess you can plug in a different controller for different elements, but who would want that?
 
What bothers me the most is that they said it's shorter than Doom3? How the hell they plan on having an open world game be shorter than their previous corridor shooter is beyond me.
 
360 users might need 3 discs due to limited use of disc space for gamedata + cant be heavily compressed.. However PC gamers can have it in 2 discs as it is compressed and expands upon installation. 2 disc would be roughly 16-18GB of compressed data that would expand upon installation.

Also please tesselation like Quake III and cvar for it... becouse I get some FEAR vibes here and it aint good.

Bring it on (although the more I hear and see the less interesting this game seems). I have had a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player for my PC since a year back and 640GB HDD. :cool:
 
PhilB said:
What bothers me the most is that they said it's shorter than Doom3? How the hell they plan on having an open world game be shorter than their previous corridor shooter is beyond me.
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Wasn't Doom 3 a short game?
 
Nebula said:
Wasn't Doom 3 a short game?
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Apparently id believes it was too long :( ! I want long games, I Like long game,s that is what I pay $60 for ! I don't want to re0visit same areas after finishing the game to get $60 worth, I want new areaas and story to get my $60 worth !

@ Richard: I was also shocked to see that the Flashlight or Gun mechanic has been put down to performance limitations ! I always thought it was a concious gameplay design, and I loved the Tension and fear the mechanic added to the game ! and , yes, me too also don't like the silent protagonist decision ! With so much story to be told and free roaming world, we are supposed to talk to NPCs and stuff and stare at them. Given the baddies that roam the wastelands, I think, the protagonist will get inot trouble most of the time coz he just stares into the face of the Biker Dudes and doesn't speak when spoken too :LOL: LOL !
 
Richard said:
The bad:
  • Doom 3 was too long? Can we please get some sort of Super Mario Bros. world warp thingie so that ADD sufferers can have their fun and those of us that enjoy 25 hour games get ours too? Sorry but I just can't wrap my head around this.
Click to expand...


  • I will explain my situation then:
    I still haven't played all the good games that came out last holiday season because I hadn't had enough time and I have the feeling that before I am done with them the next torrent of good games will already have started.

    Because I still have unplayed games, I don't feel the need to buy anything at launch and buy games for a fraction of a cost a couple of months later. I think Prince of Persia fell from something like 45€ to 15€ in less than three months.

    When I was a pupil/student I had lots of time but no money. Now my most precious resource is not money, it's time. So when deciding if I buy a game or not I don't ask myself "is it worth my money?" I ask myself "is it worth my time?". If a game is double the length then it has to justify taking up more of my time. I don't understand how the length of a game in itself is supposed to be an indicator of quality. If the game has gameplay elements x I much prefer it to have a shorter time length to the finish and more variety per minute than being stretched to meet the requirements of 25 hours of gameplay so you can put that on the box.

    Especially when it comes to id games, I doubt many people would say that Doom 3 left them hungry for more. And Rage will probably have side-missions, achievements and whatnot for people who want to spend more time with it.
 
Richard said:
Doom 3 was too long? Can we please get some sort of Super Mario Bros. world warp thingie so that ADD sufferers can have their fun and those of us that enjoy 25 hour games get ours too? Sorry but I just can't wrap my head around this. I can understand people not liking the dark, not having a torch at the same time as the weapon, the monster closets and can even understand people's arguments about the low-poly heads but if you think a game is dragging for too long just skip to the end boss fight! Don't lobby for 10 or even 5 hour games (Prey, Max Payne, etc.) just because you are happy to pay 50 euros to see an ending cinematic, hot damnit. And I wonder how many of those actually even buy their games (and with their own money, not their parents') because if they did, they'd appreciate length a whole lot more. Or better yet, sell a game for 20 euros and then sell the middle parts as an extra 30euro DLC for those of us that want to play a whole game. In previous interviews they had mentioned Rage would be 20 hours, why the vague remarks now?
Click to expand...

I agree on the surface; there's nothing wrong with 25 hour games. But the game has to be designed around 25 hours, a 25 hour game that gets that way because it's padded with 10 hours of more of the same, that I don't want, not unless the was exceptional (which given id's SP chops probably isn't the case).
 
AF is certainly doable, though it might require to individually fetch all samples and accumulate them together in a shader (dunno how megatexture is really implemented at id). If they need an almost purely software solution then might even use rip maps :)
 
RenegadeRocks said:
Surprisigly, I found DOOM 3 very enjoyable! ... ... But, it looks like I am the only one who thinks this way here :( !
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Nope, i'm with you on that one. I really enjoyed the first game and suprisingly, I enjoyed the expansion even more and that was about 4 years after its release!
 
DeadlyNinja said:
This part might have something to do with the driving + FPS gameplay. Think about it, there's no middle ground. Either the controls for driving is complete ass on keyboard, or the FPS aiming is complete ass because it's on dual analog. It's like you're screwed either way. I guess you can plug in a different controller for different elements, but who would want that?
Click to expand...

Well, I use both the keyb/rodent and XBOX controller when playing Battlefield 2 and ETQW (or rather, when I used to play them) for controlling the helis/planes. I do think that IF the PC is an equal partner then they HAVE to make the vehicles handle well with keyboard. I never had problems with Halo PC and even HL2's vehicles were pretty easy to control. Battlefield 2's land vehicles handle very, very well with keyboard/mouse.

Nebula said:
360 users might need 3 discs due to limited use of disc space for gamedata + cant be heavily compressed.. However PC gamers can have it in 2 discs as it is compressed and expands upon installation. 2 disc would be roughly 16-18GB of compressed data that would expand upon installation.
Click to expand...

Don't count on it. IF the PC version does come on just 2 DVDs it will still have more storage space than the XBOX version because of the reputed 1gb of DRM that each XBOX disc has to have but don't expect huge decompression sizes from installation: the Megatexture is already a heavily compressed format - latest figures we have from id put the uncompressed textures at 1 TB. Two dual-layer DVDs are at best 16.5 GB the vast majority of which is the MTs. I'd be very surprised if it broke 18gb after installation.

But let me backtrack a bit and for those that haven't read the magazine article, from the context JC does seem to be speaking of the PS3:Blu-Ray versus XBOX:DVD on the topic of number of discs. It's entirely possible the PC version will come on 3 DVDs, it's just worrisome that the PC/Mac version isn't specifically mentioned there as well.

Nebula said:
Wasn't Doom 3 a short game?
Click to expand...

I've beat D3 six times. First time it took me 25 hours, second through fourth it took me 20 hours, last two took me at least 18 hours. I do read every single email, watch every video, listen to every log, find all the secrets, easter eggs, kill every monster, etc. (and on the Enpro level where the player is given a choice on how to progress from middle to end of the level I usually end up playing one way, reload and play the other).

RenegadeRocks said:
@ Richard: I was also shocked to see that the Flashlight or Gun mechanic has been put down to performance limitations ! I always thought it was a concious gameplay design, and I loved the Tension and fear the mechanic added to the game !
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In many previous interviews they had specifically mentioned a conscious design decision to increase tension as the reason - and it makes sense.

P on the rocks said:
If a game is double the length then it has to justify taking up more of my time. I don't understand how the length of a game in itself is supposed to be an indicator of quality. If the game has gameplay elements x I much prefer it to have a shorter time length to the finish and more variety per minute than being stretched to meet the requirements of 25 hours of gameplay so you can put that on the box.
Click to expand...

This is obonicus' point also. I've been in this discussion before so forgive the brevity but, by that rational if there's a game that lasts only 10 mins but gives you an orgasm then you'll willingly pay 50 euros for it? Now you may have not liked DOOM 3's gameplay: that's completely fair and yes, in a vacuum, better gameplay > more gameplay. But if you start accepting that a 50 euro game today can have half the length of a game that retailed for 50 euros ten years ago with the same gameplay "intensity" then we'll start getting games like Prey or Max Payne, CoD4 (10 hours with infinite respawns), etc.

But I'm getting sidetracked; my main point is: if you want the game to be shorter you have a solution: skip some levels, even some console games give you this option now (see latest Alone in the Dark). If, on the other hand, you're like me and prefer if the game is longer you have NO solution except start from the beginning.

Especially when it comes to id games, I doubt many people would say that Doom 3 left them hungry for more.
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Again, not liking D3 is a completely valid argument for disliking its length however don't rain on my parade. :p I'm now playing through DOOM 3 for the 7th time, I'm 1/3rd of the way in and there's no level of the 27 total levels that I can remember (and I remember nearly ALL of them) that I'd throw away. There's not even a part that I feel "hmm... padding". But that's it, I LOVED the game. If you didn't and want to get it over with, bring down the console, type "map <NameOfMap>" and hit enter. ;)

Besides, Rage is supposedly (in the magazine article they still don't commit) a 2010 game. Assuming the game is released in August that's 6 years of development. They mentioned they spent a year working on that Darkness game after D3 that they scrapped, that still leaves a 5 year development cycle which should be plenty for a 20 hour game.
 
I didn't have a problem with Doom 3's length.

I did have a problem with Doom 3 seeming FAR FAR longer than it actually was due to the drab and boring gameplay.

If only they could have reproduced Doom 1/2, I would have been far far happier. Key hunting + secrets hunting + massive numbers of enemies + MAP at the end that kept track of secrets found? Oh yeah, I'm there.

Regards,
SB
 
Mod: scans not allowed

Sorry for the huge image, but I don't see AF on the ground texture in this one !

Does it mean ID is lying? Anyways, if this is the case, its the PC version for me. But I was really happy that any game was implementing AF on a console !
EDIT: It wasn't a scan :oops: ! Its a screenshot from here : *removed*

Atleast that is what their site says :rolleyes: !
 
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