Xbox Series S [XBSS] (Lockhart) General Rumors and Speculation *spawn*

[Proelite]

And is there's info directly linking xbox and sparkman, like we had with the other codenames? Or could it equally be an AMD chip for some gaming laptop, big tablet, or nintendo wiiuu, or vita 2? (aw.. I made myself sad)

Github docs had Arden and Sparkman with BC test templates for Xbox One and Xbox One X.

 

[AlNom]

Any results from Sparkman?

 

[eastmen]

You could maybe get away with supporting external storage and swapping games over. I think the primary concern is whether there's actually a market for a download-only $300 console. This move would see MS commit to it without much evidence it's a viable platform AFAICS, which is very different to and far more expensive than supporting a download-only box by simply striping out the OD from the ordinary console. Going from MrFox's numbers, I'd be more inclined to play it safe, keep the OD, and offset any losses by the assumption that people will buy enough games and services to make it profitable. $300 isn't a bottom-price device for the sort of market that'll only buy used games. It's a decent price for 1080p gamers who want next-gen but not at a $500 pricepoint.

Microsoft has information that we don't have. First off they already launched a $250 Digital Only sku with the Xbox one SAD. Two I am sure they know what resolutions the tv's customers are connecting to are capable of. They may be looking at their install base and seeing X amount own 1080p as opposed to. I am also sure they know exactly how many in their user base has installed a game from a disc.

Microsoft could very well eat the $18 or $30 the drive costs and keep it in, but why ? What do they get for that $18 or $30 spend ? If it appeals only to consumers who buy used games where does microsoft make back their money?

Now if they remove the optical they can insure each system is a digital or subscription sale. That means more money per game sale for them vs digital. They could further subsidize the cost by bundling it with game pass .

For anyone who wants an optical drive there is the more expensive unit. I also think you guys are off on the $300 price point for this

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Microsoft has information that we don't have.

Indeed. However, as search for The XB1 SAD throws up snippets like Amazon's best selling list where the XB1S is number 6 but SAD doesn't even make the top 100, and is placed at number 6 of the all XB1 consoles list, nestled between Forza 4 Lego and Gears 5 LE bundles, and articles like this:

Video game industry analyst Benji-Sales via Twitter says the $149 Xbox One S All-Digital Edition promotion for the holidays has been a strong driver in sales of the Xbox One.

He added that one retailer in the Spain has sold over 4,000 Xbox One S All-Digital Edition consoles this week. This is well above the 200 units the All-Digital Edition normally sells per week in the entire country.​

From 200 a week across the entire country, to 4000 in one week for one retailer. That to me points to price sensitivity being significant for a digital only platform. Then we also have other DD only platforms that sold poorly. There's plenty of reasons to explain that, like the PSP Go being priced stupidly high, but we haven't anywhere a clear example of a DD only platform selling well.

So like I say, if MS has the data DD only sells well (vast majority of XBone units selling these days being SADs), they'll go that route, but I don't see any reason for us to think SAD sales are significant based on what's gone before and things like Amazon best selling list, and I don't think there's reason to think a pricey DD console will sell well.

 

[Proelite]

Any results from Sparkman?

There were no results for either. They were template files with only some theoretical numbers for Arden. Devkits numbers. Since there is not a separate Lockhart devkit, the theoretical numbers are for Arden-based devkit only.

In summary:

Dante devkits with Arden SOC: 56CUs. This was in Github
Series X retail with Arden SOC: 52CUs.
Lockhart profile on Dante: 56CUs throttled.
Series S retail: <=26 CUs

 

[Barrabas]

Hmm, that cube in the hands of Dice is in danger of being used as a.....well.....dice

 

[Silent_Buddha]

...but we haven't anywhere a clear example of a DD only platform selling well.

PC? Granted, it's not a console, but it can be used as a gaming platform.

Regards,
SB

 

[Jay]

So like I say, if MS has the data DD only sells well (vast majority of XBone units selling these days being SADs), they'll go that route, but I don't see any reason for us to think SAD sales are significant based on what's gone before and things like Amazon best selling list, and I don't think there's reason to think a pricey DD console will sell well.

Where as I see it from the opposite side of that reasoning.
It's about price not the disk drive.
Having the drive may not create much more sales than not having it.
This is something that I would have been on the other side of just a few years ago, but as time moves on physical is becoming less important.
I'm not saying it's totally flipped to being irrelevant in console sales yet.
But what they make from that sale of a console with a drive may have already flipped for the lower end of the market. If their buying used games.

So if they sell 2m instead of 2.5 it may easily be a net positive, especially if it means they can keep price of the hardware low, as years go on the roi is higher.

 

[cheapchips]

There's plenty of reasons to explain that, like the PSP Go being priced stupidly high, but we haven't anywhere a clear example of a DD only platform selling well.

Wouldn't be able to find a source but I recall some comment along the lines of retail absolutely hating the PSP Go. They had no margin on the console and couldn't sell anything along side it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Where as I see it from the opposite side of that reasoning.
It's about price not the disk drive.

Absolutely. Just looked up Amazon US where the SAD is number one seller...at $120 instead of $280 for the S. In the UK, the SAD is £225 versus £240 for the S. So yeah, get your console down to $150 (like PS2 did) and you'll get sales.

However, we're not talking about that price for a potential Lockhart. It's going to be priced higher, as a new console. At that point, do the people that want it want to be without an optical drive? Maybe, maybe not. It's quite the gable to go without though, especially when that choice also saves maybe $20 on the cost of the machine. If you had to commit to a SKU and ensure it was going to sell, and were looking at something like a $300 price, would you look to save twenty bucks by removing the ODD and hope gamers won't mind, or would you put it in and ensure no-one would avoid the platform because it was digital only?

 

[eastmen]

Indeed. However, as search for The XB1 SAD throws up snippets like Amazon's best selling list where the XB1S is number 6 but SAD doesn't even make the top 100, and is placed at number 6 of the all XB1 consoles list, nestled between Forza 4 Lego and Gears 5 LE bundles, and articles like this:

Video game industry analyst Benji-Sales via Twitter says the $149 Xbox One S All-Digital Edition promotion for the holidays has been a strong driver in sales of the Xbox One.

He added that one retailer in the Spain has sold over 4,000 Xbox One S All-Digital Edition consoles this week. This is well above the 200 units the All-Digital Edition normally sells per week in the entire country.​

From 200 a week across the entire country, to 4000 in one week for one retailer. That to me points to price sensitivity being significant for a digital only platform. Then we also have other DD only platforms that sold poorly. There's plenty of reasons to explain that, like the PSP Go being priced stupidly high, but we haven't anywhere a clear example of a DD only platform selling well.

So like I say, if MS has the data DD only sells well (vast majority of XBone units selling these days being SADs), they'll go that route, but I don't see any reason for us to think SAD sales are significant based on what's gone before and things like Amazon best selling list, and I don't think there's reason to think a pricey DD console will sell well.

The thing is the SAD is underwhelming vs the S. It was only a $50 price difference and it was just missing the drive , it was the same dimensions and everything. A XSS that only has to compete with a several hundred dollar more system should do just fine. Often times sales put the Sad at the same price as the S. I think when they put out the SAD they should have discontinued the S

 

[fehu]

You talk like if people just have to buy a console and can choose only between X and S, while they have the P and the N too.

 

[Jay]

If you had to commit to a SKU and ensure it was going to sell, and were looking at something like a $300 price, would you look to save twenty bucks by removing the ODD and hope gamers won't mind, or would you put it in and ensure no-one would avoid the platform because it was digital only?

Truthfully right now i would risk it. That $20 saving is a lot over lifetime of the machine.
Plus it's not just $20 saving, its every single digital sale that may have gone either physical or second hand. Which could be part of the reason they could get price lower.

Yes $300 is a lot more than the $150 don't need to think about it price. But as you said the difference there is this is a next gen console, XO is 7years old.
Not only is $300 cheap for a next gen machine, it will reach a lower price much quicker also.

Can't say i disagree with your reasoning though. As you say I think it will come down to what their data tells them. It's not like they couldn't release a diskless one later for example.

 

[Rangers]

Truthfully right now i would risk it. That $20 saving is a lot over lifetime of the machine.
Plus it's not just $20 saving, its every single digital sale that may have gone either physical or second hand. Which could be part of the reason they could get price lower.

Yes $300 is a lot more than the $150 don't need to think about it price. But as you said the difference there is this is a next gen console, XO is 7years old.
Not only is $300 cheap for a next gen machine, it will reach a lower price much quicker also.

Can't say i disagree with your reasoning though. As you say I think it will come down to what their data tells them. It's not like they couldn't release a diskless one later for example.

Supposed rule of thumb is you double every dollar added/saved on the BOM to the MSRP.

So $25 BOM savings=$50 cheaper console.

 

[BRiT]

PC? Granted, it's not a console, but it can be used as a gaming platform.

Everything Apple: iPad, iPhone
Everything Google: Android

 

[MrFox]

Does ouya count?

 

[AzBat]

Does ouya count?

If Microsoft or Sony was making it.

Tommy McClain

 

[BRiT]

Does ouya count?

I dont think Stadia counts.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Truthfully right now i would risk it. That $20 saving is a lot over lifetime of the machine.
Plus it's not just $20 saving, its every single digital sale that may have gone either physical or second hand. Which could be part of the reason they could get price lower.

Yes $300 is a lot more than the $150 don't need to think about it price. But as you said the difference there is this is a next gen console, XO is 7years old.
Not only is $300 cheap for a next gen machine, it will reach a lower price much quicker also.

Can't say i disagree with your reasoning though. As you say I think it will come down to what their data tells them. It's not like they couldn't release a diskless one later for example.

Also they could in theory release an external optical drive as an accessory, although from a PR perspective that could backfire if people are outraged that there isn't an optical drive and then MS offers one as an accessory.

Regards,
SB

 

[MrFox]

I dont think Stadia counts.

What's stadia?