"Square President: FF and DQ no longer PS3 exclusive"

[scooby_dooby]

It just makes sense, Square hasn't had any games that have been as huge of a success as FF, especially in North America which is the 360's main market.

If they were going to develop a x360 exclusive why would they NOT make FF? Wouldn't that be the wisest move as far as ROI and overall profit?

 

[Carl B]

Porting your usual Final Fantasy RPG should be "trivial" with next gen´s consoles. I mean FFs have never been technical masterpieces and FF7/8 were ported to PC before. If done right a port should cost less than the translation to english.

DotProduct, a question on this. How impressive, from a technical standpoint, was FF X when it launched? That was certainly before the time I got interested in console tech, so I don't really know. Me the player was quite impressed, but I could see where there's just not much interaction with ones environment. Still, seeing as how it was one of the more 'visually pleasing' games when it launched, was just wondering about this aspect of it.

FFXI can be fairly taxing on older video cards, and I imagine FFXII will push the PS2 to it's graphical limits.

 

[Titanio]

Well don't be hesitant to provide some links or quotes. The more the merrier!

It actually seems like they're all coming from one conference. I'd thought before given the apparent difference in his remarks that they were coming from seperate interviews or something, but apparently it's all from one press briefing about the current state of SquareEnix. So worth bearing in mind that all these different comments were all being made together.

The WatchImpress article is here: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050804/sqex.htm

It opens with a rather dramatic headline, but the article seems a little less "forceful" at least based on a machine translation. I've seen a couple of different translations of it that are on differing levels of suggestion about a multiplatform strategy, or more specifically the possibility of a multiplatform strategy. I guess one could do his magic, but something tells me, given all the quotes we've seen thusfar, that we'd need a full transcript from this conference to get full clarity

 

[DotProduct]

DotProduct, a question on this. How impressive, from a technical standpoint, was FF X when it launched? That was certainly before the time I got interested in console tech, so I don't really know. Me the player was quite impressed, but I could see where there's just not much interaction with ones environment. Still, seeing as how it was one of the more 'visually pleasing' games when it launched, was just wondering about this aspect of it.

For a game like FF10 you need a very well functioning art pipeline and considering it is a PS2 game they propbably had issues with (no) mid mapping/alias/texture bandwidth...

But there is nothing (at least nothing I can remember), you couldn´t easily port to XBox 1.

Basicly the only thing that stands out is the art pipeline (easy/fast/good creation of cutscenes, character animations, facial animations and incorperating them into the game), but this is console independent.

I would even claim, that you only need mediocre programmers to create a FF10. You need excellent artists of course.

There is nothing I can remember in FF10 that couldn´t be done on PS1 in principle, besides some realtime shadows maybe. It is just more of everything.

In contrast a game like Halo never could be done on PS1, because the gameplay relies on the good AI, large sourroundings and stuff that the PS1 couldn´t handle in principle.

Actually I claim that a full CG quality FF10 could be done on PS3 and XBox 360., just by using prerendered backgrounds compressed with a movie codec and cube mapping/matt painting. 256MB is propably enough to store prerendered Data for the typical FF10 scenario. ( every camera position -> one frame)

The level of interactivity in FF10 is really that low.

 

[jvd]

what high prob translates to is # of console units sold or market share, which will prob be ps3 next gen

Could be price . ns5 200$ , x360 300$ ps3 400$ .

IF that is how these launch i wouldn't be suprised for them to allways remain apart in pricing .

I.e ns5 150$ x360 250$ ps3 350. Then next set of drops ns5 100$ x360 200 , ps3 300

If ms doesn't adopt hd-dvd it seems that they will have a pricing advantage and one that can remain for a very very long time and I don't see why they wouldn't press it to thier advantage .

 

[Carl B]

For a game like FF10 you need a very well functioning art pipeline and considering it is a PS2 game they propbably had issues with (no) mid mapping/alias/texture bandwidth...

But there is nothing (at least nothing I can remember), you couldn´t easily port to XBox 1.

Basicly the only thing that stands out is the art pipeline (easy/fast/good creation of cutscenes, character animations, facial animations and incorperating them into the game), but this is console independent.

I would even claim, that you only need mediocre programmers to create a FF10. You need excellent artists of course.

There is nothing I can remember in FF10 that couldn´t be done on PS1 in principle, besides some realtime shadows maybe. It is just more of everything.

In contrast a game like Halo never could be done on PS1, because the gameplay relies on the good AI, large sourroundings and stuff that the PS1 couldn´t handle in principle.

Actually I claim that a full CG quality FF10 could be done on PS3 and XBox 360., just by using prerendered backgrounds compressed with a movie codec and cube mapping/matt painting. 256MB is propably enough to store prerendered Data for the typical FF10 scenario. ( every camera position -> one frame)

The level of interactivity in FF10 is really that low.

Well, thanks for the insights. The direction I was going in though with my post wasn't really if it could be easily ported to XBox, as I know that wouldn't have been a problem. It's more like, "compared to their contemporaries at the time, do Square game developers push the console on which they work?" So I don't remember what other PS2 games were coming out around then, but was FFX comparable in it's technical effort?

I think FFXI, and FFXII when it's released, will be more indicative of determining the trend - if it's even there. I suspect though that FFXII will be pushing the system, and that would say to me Square may very well push the systems they choose to work on in the future. Anyway we'll see. I don't see them needing great physics or anything else in their games, but that doesn't mean they're not hatching plans behind out backs.

 

[jvd]

Just a note on future ff and dq games .

We all know that games will become more expensive to produce adn I don't see why square would spend hte money they do (esp on art ) and release only on one system esp in the first few years when cost doesn't justify limiting the audiance to one small base

 

[Titanio]

Just a note on future ff and dq games .

We all know that games will become more expensive to produce adn I don't see why square would spend hte money they do (esp on art ) and release only on one system esp in the first few years when cost doesn't justify limiting the audiance to one small base

And so ultimately it depends on how the market plays out. For example, this gen and last (PSone/N64 etc.), putting themselves on one system did not mean putting themselves on "one small base". Will that remain the case next gen? I don't think putting themselves only on a certain popular console would mean putting themselves on a "small base", I think it's more a question of whether other consoles develop a large enough base warrant consideration in that regard. That's very possible, of course, and Wada seems to think it's very possible too.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I think anyone who thinks the 360 won't do extremely well is living in a dreamland.

I don't think there's any question about how the market wil play out, 360 will be a huge player there's no doubt about that, the only question is how much of the PS market will they be able to take.

People seem to think SE needs to wait and see how the 360 "does" but I really don't think that's teh case. With the 3rd party support, the experience and brandname of xb1, and the marketing dollars of MS, 360 will be a huge hit, it's really a no brainer slam dunk.

So I'm sure SE wants to get pon the bandwagon early, just like all the other 3rd pary dev's seem to be doing.

 

[DotProduct]

I also think it will be quite interesting how this plays out.

There are some important points:

FF isnt necessarily a system seller anymore. There is alot competition on the national (Japan) and international market. There is for example Nautilus (Shadow Hearts) from France, who did a very good job with their PS2 games, there is Sega with Grandia, there is Mistwalker (Lost Odysse, Blue Dragon) and there is Bioware and Bethesda who gained marketshare in USA and Europe this generation.

In USA/Europe Square and FF loose their importance/marketshare. Only few people will still buy a console just for FF.

In Japan itself FF never was that strong, in Japan this is Dragon Quest.

And when Square´s competitors go multi platform and Xbox 360 gets 40% or more marketshare in USA and perhaps even Europe, than Square has to port FF or they loose alot of income and resources they need to deliver AAA games.

And it´s not just me who was dissapointed from FF10. This game is nice, but it just was not a system seller or major breakthrough in gaming. If FF12 gets "mediocre", too, then the FF hype machine might disappear and be replaced by another hype machine (Dragon Quest or even a Mistwalker game).
And without FF Square isnt much. There is Enix with DQ, but games like "The Bouncer" were really disapointing and Star Ocean 3 (imho better than FF10) is just another rpg, besides breath of fire, xenosaga and many more.

Perhaps it would be even wise to sell some SE stocks, before Squares downfall becomes apparent. I think it is quite likely, that Square will get into some trouble (Unless FF12 blows everyone away...).

 

[Rodéric]

Grandias are from Gamearts, and Grandia III is published by Squareenix, AFAIR.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Mistwalker has yet to put out a game, so I wouldn't call them competition.

Grandia is developed by gamearts

Nautilus is a Japanese developer started up by a number of ex-square emloyees, so... they're not from France... ...

As to the way things play out... roughly 70% of S-E profits (this includes FF) come from Japan the other 30% comes from the rest of the WORLD.


One thing that I never understood though, why does S-E need to go multi-platform in order to make enough money off of the next FFs? I mean, FFX and the rest of the S-E big budget games were plenty expenisve this gen, why didn't they go multiplatform this gen? The games should be easily ported to the Xbox, so why? The platform exculsivity, IMO, is a choice not based on economics, but perhaps I'm wrong?


Also, Dotproduct... I think you're seriously underestimating S-E's importance... you may not like their games, but the games sell very well. In fact, they sell as well or better than GTA, so discounting them as an unimportant player is a bit much. FF and DQ are huge in Japan and always have been, if it's the US the I can agree, but no not in Japan.

 

[Almasy]

Just a note on future ff and dq games .

We all know that games will become more expensive to produce adn I don't see why square would spend hte money they do (esp on art ) and release only on one system esp in the first few years when cost doesn't justify limiting the audiance to one small base

When you manage to sell 3-5 million copies of a single FF on a single console, production costs are not much of a concern. And Wada already said it, high end games like DQ and FF will remain on a single console, the one with the biggest userbase.

That console will be PS3, no question about it, comments about how Square would be "wiser" to develop for all consoles are more in line with wishfull thinking IMO. This is funny, and happens on every board I have visited, fans of other consoles are rejoiced about RR 360 and would die to see FF and DQ on it as well. Why not just get a PS3 if they want Sony franchises that much?

 

[Almasy]

One thing that I never understood though, why does S-E need to go multi-platform in order to make enough money off of the next FFs? I mean, FFX and the rest of the S-E big budget games were plenty expenisve this gen, why didn't they go multiplatform this gen? The games should be easily ported to the Xbox, so why? The platform exculsivity, IMO, is a choice not based on economics, but perhaps I'm wrong?

Oh, they make enough profit. Very.....intense fans of other consoles would like people to believe otherwise, but the fact that each main installment generates ~4 million copies worldwide makes that statement false.

To give some context to my claim, God of War had a budget of around 20 million USD, and after 500k copies sold in the US, Sony is making a profit from the title already.

Also, Dotproduct... I think you're seriously underestimating S-E's importance... you may not like their games, but the games sell very well. In fact, they sell as well or better than GTA, so discounting them as an unimportant player is a bit much. FF and DQ are huge in Japan and always have been, if it's the US the I can agree, but no not in Japan.

That´s correct. Square Enix´s importance in the Japanese market is equivalent to the states EA holds in America. You need them to be sucessfull, and they create very high quality games that assist greatly to increase the userbase.

 

[jvd]

And so ultimately it depends on how the market plays out. For example, this gen and last (PSone/N64 etc.), putting themselves on one system did not mean putting themselves on "one small base". Will that remain the case next gen? I don't think putting themselves only on a certain popular console would mean putting themselves on a "small base", I think it's more a question of whether other consoles develop a large enough base warrant consideration in that regard. That's very possible, of course, and Wada seems to think it's very possible too.

The question is when are we talking about ? In 2006 putting themselves on just the ps3 or just the x360 will be a small base . Obviously the ps3 smaller than the x360 depending on when in 2006 and what markets the ps3 has been released on .

In 2007 both will still be small . 2008 we will prob see the ps3 pull away from the xbox 360. But will it pull away enough to make up for the lack of loosing the whole xbox 360 installed base ?


Last generation was diffrent . The dc was launched and was doing good but was dropped by sega. So the ps2 had time to build up an installed base of around 10 million by the time the xbox even launched and continued to pull foward while the xbox lagged behind . This time however ms will have the early lead and thus an expensive game will be better suited for both platofrms

 

[Carl B]

To add, 'The Bouncer' was a Square project, not an Enix one.

Anyway I think it's safe to say Final Fantasy XII and Kingdom Hearts II will bring in the money, so I wouldn't sell those shares just yet.

Not to mention - just the sheer volume of titles they will be bringing out across Japanese cell phones, DS and PSP, PS3, 360, Rev, and online as a whole tells me that if there were to be a serious drop in their share price anytime soon - it might be a good time to buy.

 

[jvd]

When you manage to sell 3-5 million copies of a single FF on a single console, production costs are not much of a concern. And Wada already said it, high end games like DQ and FF will remain on a single console, the one with the biggest userbase.

What next gen system has 3-5 million consoles sold though ?

in 2006 it certianly wont be the ps3 . However that will only allow a game to sell that many if every single person who owns the console buys a copy of the game , which has never happened with any game .

So tell me how are they going to manage to sell 3-5 million copies of a single game on a single console when no next gen console has enough of an instlaled base to handle it . Your talking at least in 2007-2008 time frame for that to happen

 

[Almasy]

To add, 'The Bouncer' was a Square project, not an Enix one.

Anyway I think it's safe to say Final Fantasy XII and Kingdom Hearts II will bring in the money, so I wouldn't sell those shares just yet.

Not to mention - just the sheer volume of titles they will be bringing out across Japanese cell phones, DS and PSP, PS3, 360, Rev, and online as a whole tells me that if there were to be a serious drop in their share price anytime soon - it might be a good time to buy.

The person that suggested Square Enix´s downfall is horribly misinformed, has absolutely no idea of their lineup and has no notion of the performance of the market in either the US or Japan.

 

[Sean*O]

One problem with that is Square/Enix won't know what the user base landscape will look like next gen, until at least another year and a half to two years.

If they wait that long to begin production on their big titles, they push their earnings back a long way.

They can guess that the PS3 will dominate, but that is unknown, and if PS3 were to end up out in front it would take probably a year after launch to reach that point because the 360 will have such a head start in installed user base.

 

[Carl B]

One problem with that is Square/Enix won't know what the user base landscape will look like next gen, until at least another year and a half to two years.

If they wait that long to begin production on their big titles, they push their earnings back a long way.

They can guess that the PS3 will dominate, but that is unknown, and if PS3 were to end up out in front it would take probably a year after launch to reach that point because the 360 will have such a head start in installed user base.

Well but if we're just talking about Japanese titles at this point - as all their major titles remain for a year or so - I'm not sure the expectations of a 'massive' 360 Japanese installed base will be enough to dissuade them from their plotted course, assumign that's PS3 development. But that being said, next-gen development on their end is probably only in it's early stages; consider for example that FFXII will be launching around the same time as PS3, but on the older console. So whatever changes in the landscape do occur, they would likely be able to adjust their plans accordingly and not be set too much behind development-wise.