More on the FF issue for PS3 from 1UP/Sony
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Fu3lFr3nzy
Regular
Thats a bunch of bull**** 
Thats all I can say about the situation
Thats all I can say about the situation
This is indeed sad news. I love force feedback with a really nice racing wheel for a machine. I hope they reconsider as it is something important to a lot of people. It's just another reason for me to stay away from the PS3 as it will lack an experience I'm able to get elsewhere.
Um...in that other thread aren't there already games with FF on PS3?
What's stopping a game from supporting a particular wheel, with force feedback? Pretty much like it happens on PC these days...?
I'd guess the software/game would have to be programmed to give signals to the controller in regards to when and how much rumble the controller needs to perform. I could see this code never being in the game for starters. On top of that, the courts are quite strict on stuff like this. Sneaking by code, passing it through the PS3 and creating rumble could lead to some more bad news, of legal terms this time, which Sony can really do without at this point.
I'm still waiting for "surround" rumble, meaning if I'm in a racing game and I get bumped on the left, only the left side shakes. Assuming it doesn't add too much weight to the controller and/or wheel, it'd be a great addition. A bit far fetched for some, yes, but if done right, could take immersion to a whole new level.
Rainbow Man
Veteran
I played arcasde racers in the 80s (and greaty they were!) with force feedback and now someone's somehwgone and patented it?!
Oye vey.
What is this world coming to.. Is nothing sacred anymore?
Peace.
Oye vey.
What is this world coming to.. Is nothing sacred anymore?
Peace.
The first version of the demo that was released actually had the Force Feedback, so you can be assured that the game is developed with Force Feedback support. My guess is that they had to take it out, because they will have a per-game licence in cooperation with, say, Logitech (who have stock in Immersion and have long cooperated with them), meaning that for each GT game sold, they have to pay a certain amount to Immersion. This could mean that a free demo for this reason cannot support Force Feedback, unless PD/Sony pays Immersion for each demo sold. Or, and this is another option, they just haven't finalised their agreement on this yet.
Although personally I am expecting that it won't be a problem for the final game, I have to say that this worries me. The demo should have had proper feedback already anyway, and I hate the whole licence bullshit. The worst thing is that Microsoft's way of dealing with the issue is far from perfect either. While I applaud that they are finally (after, what, six years??) supporting force feedback, they are still keeping it all very close to their chest - hopefully they will also support Logitech wheels soon.
Although personally I am expecting that it won't be a problem for the final game, I have to say that this worries me. The demo should have had proper feedback already anyway, and I hate the whole licence bullshit. The worst thing is that Microsoft's way of dealing with the issue is far from perfect either. While I applaud that they are finally (after, what, six years??) supporting force feedback, they are still keeping it all very close to their chest - hopefully they will also support Logitech wheels soon.
Something in the above doesn't make sense.
All PS2 games were programmed for the Dual Shock 2, which didn't have force feedback, nevertheless, the forcce feedback in the wheels was recogniced.
Maybe it means the standard rumble effects won't be recogniced 1:1 by rumbling wheel controllers, because the game has no rumble effects coded in.
But if there really won't be no force feedback whatsoever in GT5, that'll kinda suck. All the effort going into making the cars handle and behave realistically is going to waste because the lack of FF
Sounds like rubbish to me as well. Immersion has patents on the hardware implementation of devices featurung rumble. Surely, anyone can develop a piece of software that makes use of rumble of a device (i.e. the new Logitech wheel) that has licenced rumble technlogoy. AFAIK, the rumble technology that is patented is on it's hardware implementation, NOT on the software side.
If I'm not mistaken, even on the PS2linux kit, one was able to access the rumble of the DS2 controller.
If I'm not mistaken, even on the PS2linux kit, one was able to access the rumble of the DS2 controller.
But if Immersion caught you at it, they'd'a sued ya for millions!
But if Immersion caught you at it, they'd'a sued ya for millions!
Perhaps someone in the know can clarify, but it really doesn't make sense to me. Even in the case of the PS2 - Immersion sued the hardware makers of the DS2 [Sony] and not the development studios that have been developing games using a simply API to control the rumble in their games. I can get, that because the standard controller of the PS3 does not support rumble, most devs won't go through the effort of writing a library or features for rumble that 99% of the people won't be able to use anyway. In the case of Gran Turismo though - a game that specifically supports a Logitech wheel to be that "real driving simulator" it's being marketed as, writing some code to support rumble should have absolutely no bearing on Immersion patents. And Logitech would be in fact an Immersion licenced product.
Incorrect. Immersion sued the specific combination of software and hardware use. They have a very broad patent on the software / hardware implementation combined. However, I'm sure Logitech isn't keen on losing one of its biggest sources of income - it's wheels have been incredibly successful on PS2 and Microsoft hasn't been very cooperative. And Logitech, in turn, has licenced the technology directly from Immersion.
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Naboomagnoli
Newcomer
http://www.threespeech.com/index.php?s=force+feedback&x=0&y=0
I don't know how Phil Harrison could have said this only in November if force feedback can't be supported.
I don't know how Phil Harrison could have said this only in November if force feedback can't be supported.
Phil Harrison Interview said:
The specific combination that was used by what I assume was supplied as libraries by Sony and the DualShock 2 hardware. I don't think you can patent a simple call to a method/function that triggers the rumble device (then again, patent laws are kind a pathetic). Patenting drivers and hardware is something else though, but none of these would be an issue if they come from a 3rd party that is officially using a licenced product (i.e. Logitech with the FF wheel).
Also, from what I recall, Immersion's case on the whole matter was extremely thin and quite surprising that they got through with it. I'm not even sure their case included sueing any drivers that would have been used to trigger the rumble in the DS2. Does anyone have links about some of the details of the whole Immersion lawsuit and what exactly they were sueing?
IIRC they were grumbling about specific uses of rumble, rather than generic rumble. They wanted certain games removed from sale, and not all games that use FF. But it was a long time ago and the realities of the case were only delivered through biased PR quotes.
Still, it makes you wonder. If software patents are fundamental to the technology, what's to stop the EU getting rumble/FF where we don't have software patents? Though TBH I don't understand why Sony wouldn't just pay up if it meant losing FF wheels on GT. Even if that's a minority use, GT is regarded publically as the driving simulator. The moment it loses that credibility, I think it'd harm the platform. Most people will never use FF, but when they hear PS3 can't do FF (if that's true, which I doubt) it's still have a negative influence.
