More on the FF issue for PS3 from 1UP/Sony

[fearsomepirate]

I don't think you can patent a simple call to a method/function that triggers the rumble device (then again, patent laws are kind a pathetic).

These days, you could probably patent the color blue and the letter "W." Nothing would surprise me anymore.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I'm still waiting for "surround" rumble, meaning if I'm in a racing game and I get bumped on the left, only the left side shakes. Assuming it doesn't add too much weight to the controller and/or wheel, it'd be a great addition. A bit far fetched for some, yes, but if done right, could take immersion to a whole new level.

Um, if you bump something with the left of your car, you still feel it in the entire car in real life.

 

[Bobbler]

Something in the above doesn't make sense.
All PS2 games were programmed for the Dual Shock 2, which didn't have force feedback, nevertheless, the forcce feedback in the wheels was recogniced.

Maybe it means the standard rumble effects won't be recogniced 1:1 by rumbling wheel controllers, because the game has no rumble effects coded in.

But if there really won't be no force feedback whatsoever in GT5, that'll kinda suck. All the effort going into making the cars handle and behave realistically is going to waste because the lack of FF

That's the first thought that came to my mind. It doesn't really matter what PS3 actually supports out of the box, games can use special features of whatever controllers they want -- Guitar controller for Guitar Hero, for example (where you can tilt the guitar vs pressing the select button -- that isn't something the DS2 can do). As long as a game passes the TRC then there shouldn't be any reason that it couldn't use FF on a wheel like DFP as long as PD got the okay from Logitech (who licenses from Immersion) and the driver or whatever to include (same situation as GT4).

The quote from Sony doesn't seem to really say anything, unless they are saying that the eyetoy games won't exist, games that need a microphone, or any other control mechanism/feature that isn't SIXAXIS or directly mappable won't work... It sounds like an official chucklehead response. I'd be curious to hear from Polyphony Digital or Phil Harrison or someone better informed than the standard nameless PR guys.

I do hope GT5 and other games continue to support force feedback, but I can't say I'd really miss it (as it's only now that I've even started thinking about getting a wheel and that has mainly been for GT4). There are PS3 games with FF now, so I don't see why there can't continue to be.

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Add Eyetoy to that list of controllers that can be used by the PS2 without out-of-the-box support. It's amazing how many times people are saying that RR7, NFS:C, the original GTHD demo etc support FFB, and Phil Harrison's own comments on this matter at PS3 launch, and yet it doesn't seem to leave an impression in threads like this around the internet globe.

edit: oops, you did mention Eyetoy, and indeed the Singstar microphone. I posted a link up above somewhere regarding Phil Harrison's comments on this (predating the 1up news post).

 

[Mintmaster]

That's the first thought that came to my mind. It doesn't really matter what PS3 actually supports out of the box, games can use special features of whatever controllers they want -- Guitar controller for Guitar Hero, for example (where you can tilt the guitar vs pressing the select button -- that isn't something the DS2 can do). As long as a game passes the TRC then there shouldn't be any reason that it couldn't use FF on a wheel like DFP as long as PD got the okay from Logitech (who licenses from Immersion) and the driver or whatever to include (same situation as GT4).

The thing is the guitar controller, eyetoy, and SIXAXIS all need only one-way communication. They can do their special stuff through the same communication lines as the buttons and accelerometers use. Force feedback, on the other hand, needs communication back to the controller.

I suppose it's possible that Sony allowed for this in the controller port spec, but it's not guaranteed. This line of thought coincides with the Sony statement. It's not so much that PS3 was designed without force feedback, but rather that it was designed without feedback of any sort. At least that's my guess.

It doesn't make sense for Sony to lie about this, and 1up is usually pretty credible. I guess FF is out.

 

[scooby_dooby]

This is a pretty funny turn of events when yoiu remember the FOrza and Gran Turismo discussions where so many members argued any sim racer without FF was fundamentally broken, therefore Forza would always be the inferior game.

Now Forza has it and GT does not, i love irony .

 

[rounin]

I suppose it's possible that Sony allowed for this in the controller port spec, but it's not guaranteed. This line of thought coincides with the Sony statement. It's not so much that PS3 was designed without force feedback, but rather that it was designed without feedback of any sort. At least that's my guess.

I think one problem with your idea is that according to the above, there are already games on PS3 that have force feedback.

 

[Phil]

GT(5) isn't out yet - but I stand by my comment: if GT5 without FF on the wheel == No buy for me.

 

[scooby_dooby]

RR7 and NFS: Carbon already support rumble on wheels.

Rumble is not the same thing as FF.

The MS wireless wheel supports both rumble and FF, though it must be plugged into a wall jack for FF as it requires much more power.

 

[Hale]

Yeah, Carbon actually has full Force Feedback on PS3.

Just tested..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think one problem with your idea is that according to the above, there are already games on PS3 that have force feedback.

And in addition, the interface is either BlueTooth or USB, which are both bidirectional. No reason at all to think communcations can't be sent to peripherals (ignoring the fact, as stated repeatedly, FF does work on PS3 already in some titles )

 

[stuart_r]

All them wheels are made buy logitech (and would assume they pay Imersion) so why would this effect Sony they don't make the wheel. If a developer what's to use a third party wheel with Logitech's API what would be the problem?

 

[Eleazar]

I don't really care about Force Feedback too much at all. I don't think it really adds anything to the experience and when I have used a controller with force feedback it sorta becomes something like "white noise". I eventually completely tune it out during gameplay. It's one of those things that is nice to have but really doesn't matter in the end. I really don't think FF adds to realism either. I haven't driven too many cars where the wheel begins vibrating violently because I made a turn or I am on rougher terrain. For some people FF adds to the experience while others could really go without it.

 

[Diamond.G]

I don't really care about Force Feedback too much at all. I don't think it really adds anything to the experience and when I have used a controller with force feedback it sorta becomes something like "white noise". I eventually completely tune it out during gameplay. It's one of those things that is nice to have but really doesn't matter in the end. I really don't think FF adds to realism either. I haven't driven too many cars where the wheel begins vibrating violently because I made a turn or I am on rougher terrain. For some people FF adds to the experience while others could really go without it.

I think you are thinking of rumble.. Using the DFP with GT4 (force feedback) proves to be pretty realistic (steering wheel resistance, and motions). About the only thing that was really missing was the actualy G-forces you feel....

 

[novcze]

rumble vs. force feedback

i think lot of people when saying "force feedback" mean "rumble" . . . and with force feedback is everything OK as it looks

Yeah, Carbon actually has full Force Feedback on PS3.

Just tested..

 

[Bad_Boy]

hmm..
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=902670&postcount=5

Someone from Logitech commented on FF the other day:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...ost320 730433

The Japenese version of GT:HD features force feedback support with the DFP. Also, Need for Speed: Carbon and Ridge Racer 7 both feature force feedback wheel support (Japan and US versions). NFS Carbon should support the G25's shifter as well, though I haven't personally been able to test it.

This does not necessarily mean that force feedback will be present in any titles going forward.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ridgeracer&message.id=427

I was asked if the Force Feedback and Rumble features of the wheel works with RR7 and yes they do.
the wheel jerks when you crash and rumbles when driving over the few rocky road areas like in the Lost Ruins track.

Kazunori during TGS

 

[Tap In]

hmm..
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=902670&postcount=5


http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ridgeracer&message.id=427

then someone should contact 1UP and sony to update their report/comment.

Sony Computer Entertainment America confirmed that there would be no supported force feedback technology with its PlayStation 3. They told 1UP the following:

All PS3 games are programmed for the SIXAXIS which doesn't have force feedback, therefore the force feedback in the wheels won't be recognized.​

 

[Bad_Boy]

then someone should contact 1UP and sony to update their report/comment.

Sounds like it may have been a misunderstanding as rabidrabbit was talking about on the first page.

Does make you wonder why it would be in some versions of a game, and not in others. (japanese GTHD concept vs american GTHD concept). Maybe it has to do with the specific wheel. IIRC theres a wheel out in japan now redone for the ps3 but hasnt been released here yet (basically it was a redux of the g25 I think).

I'll have to search the watch impress archives to see what wheel it was.

edit:
Ah nvm for 80 bucks its definately not a g25.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/741/741062p1.html
Maybe it would similar like the bluetooth remote thing, they never added support for it till the official remote was released. Except some older games/wheels work, and others dont? Kinda a confusing issue imo.

 

[Nesh]

Incorrect. Immersion sued the specific combination of software and hardware use. They have a very broad patent on the software / hardware implementation combined. However, I'm sure Logitech isn't keen on losing one of its biggest sources of income - it's wheels have been incredibly successful on PS2 and Microsoft hasn't been very cooperative. And Logitech, in turn, has licenced the technology directly from Immersion.

Specific combination you are refering to most likely should be the software support of the Dual Shock2's raumble technology. I see no reason why developers should be prohibited fom making the games rumble compatible with Immersion licensed peripherals.r

 

[Nesh]

hmm..
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=902670&postcount=5


http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ridgeracer&message.id=427

Great find

Thats the proof FF is still there