Peter Moore says that Xbox360 could possibly adopt a Blu Ray addon

[Bobbler]

Well, Google hooked me up.

According to ArsTechnica MMC includes:
1. copying to a HDD
2. transferring a movie
3. streaming to a portable player
4. streaming content on a home network

So it's much more than 'ripping your disc to your HDD.'

And the difference between BR and HD-DVD right now is BR is not mandatory, so the studio has the option of not supporting it, while HD-DVD is mandatory.


http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/microsoft-hd-dvd.ars

Might want to check the date of when that article was published and when BR announced MMC.

Mandatory managed copy will be part of Blu-ray format, but while HP's request (for interactivity) is being considered, at this point in time, the Blu-ray group is still proceeding down the path of Java," Blu-ray spokesman Andy Parsons told Reuters in an interview.

I don't see what is Voluntary about that?

 

[scooby_dooby]

That quote was to explain some of the uses for MMC. It's taken from another article at cdfreaks which is much more recent, and notes that since ars's article BR has adopted voluntary managed copy, not mandatory managed copy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well, Google hooked me up.
3. streaming to a portable player
4. streaming content on a home network

Well I do find that surprising. I'd have thought workarounds would be easy enough. If MMC is needed for these tasks then it's understandable MS wouldn't be happy with any medium without. And I imagine Sony too, given their latest LocationFree TV equipment.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I don't see what is Voluntary about that?

It says "part of the format" well that leaves the door wide open, and accordint to this article from CDFreaks, the Rom Mark and BD+ could override the AACC managed copy capabilities, and still make it a voluntary thing.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12616

Just recently, Blu-ray decided to use Advanced Access Content System (AACS) Internet-based copy protection, the same strong anti-piracy technology as used by HD DVD. At first, it may appear that HP would be happy to know that the AACS system does indeed offer support for mandatory managed copying. Unfortunately, when Blu-ray took on AACS, they have also taken on BD+ and ROM Mark, both which essentially overrides AACS's managed copy capability, which in turn can render it unusable to the consumer.

The BD+ technology allows content providers to choose the disc's encryption scheme as well as the capability to remotely provide flash updates, such as to replace a known circumvented system. The ROM Mark on the other hand is a digital watermarking technology that is used to determine if a copy of the disc can be made. What makes matters worse is that some Blu-ray members including 20th Century-Fox are apposing the mandatory managed copy capability, claiming that the studios have the right to decide whether discs may be copied as well as which Blu-ray players may be used to copy them.

 

[Bobbler]

That quote was to explain some of the uses for MMC. It's taken from another article at cdfreaks which is much more recent, and notes that since ars's article BR has adopted voluntary managed copy, not mandatory managed copy.

I don't see that anywhere? The only place I've found that even mentions anything about BR's MMC being "voluntary" is cdfreaks (which is from an article before it was announced mandatory, too), as the only quotes from anyone at the BR forum say its mandatory (the reuters article seems to be off the site now, for some reason).

The two ars articles are from before and after, and before they mention that BR uses a voluntary (because its in the AACS spec) and after they say its Mandatory.

Look at the dates on the articles -- the 16th of November is when it was announced Mandatory.

 

[Bobbler]

It says "part of the format" well that leaves the door wide open, and accordint to this article from CDFreaks, the Rom Mark and BD+ could override the AACC managed copy capabilities, and still make it a voluntary thing.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12616

Check the article dates. November 1st < November 16th (date of Mandatory announcement).

 

[scooby_dooby]

Check the article dates. November 1st < November 16th (date of Mandatory announcement).

But if the BD+ and ROM+ mark can override the MMC, then MMC is still 'part' of the BR specs. The wording in that statement is pretty vague, and it seems MMC is still being bandied around as a problem so it makes me wonder if there's more to the issue...

I guess arstechnica sums it up well:

Nevertheless, HD DVD took an extra step and made managed copy "mandatory" for all HD DVD offerings, but when I dug into the matter, I learned one very important thing (often ignored by the media, but of essential importance): the "mandatory" managed copy in HD DVD does not mandate a free managed copy. No, as Jordi Rebbas told me, studios have to offer managed copy, but they have the option of charging for it. Meanwhile, Blu-ray proponents have claimed that they will offer managed copy as it is part of the AACS specification, but companies like Microsoft have called on them to make managed copy mandatory as well.

And now, it is. But what exactly will be be getting? That remains unclear. First, the AACS specification is still not finished, and until it is, there's nothing but speculation when it comes to actual details. There is, however, quite a bit of concern over how Blu-ray's BD+ technology—a dynamic encryption scheme that allows for changing encryption schemes midstream—will affect this.

Most media outlets are currently spinning this story in the direction of HP threatening to abandon Blu-ray, but I don't think we'll see this happen. iHD may still, in fact, show up in Blu-ray, but with mandatory managed copy "supported" to at least some extent, there's not a lot of ammunition left in the pro-HD DVD camp. We'll have to see more details on the managed copy implementation on both formats before drawing further comparisons, however.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051117-5592.html

So the BD+ technology could cause some problems still it seems.

 

[Bobbler]

But if the BD+ and ROM+ mark can override the MMC, then MMC is still 'part' of the BR specs. The wording in that statement is pretty vague, and it seems MMC is still being bandied around as a problem so it makes me wonder if there's more to the issue...

How about, we don't assume the worst? Nothing after the MMC announcement lends us to believe it is voluntary. The BD+ and ROM comments were speculation on cdfreaks side, and that was when it was still voluntary.

 

[scooby_dooby]

How about, we don't assume the worst? Nothing after the MMC announcement lends us to believe it is voluntary. The BD+ and ROM comments were speculation on cdfreaks side, and that was when it was still voluntary.

Not assuming the worst, but lets not gloss over these things. BR has adopted BD+ wich leads to the possiblity of overriding managed copy. HD-DVD has no such possiblity, no loop holes, it must provide managed copy abilities.

Until the BDA clarifies this(why haven't they?), it's still a large question mark.

 

[Bobbler]

So the BD+ technology could cause some problems still it seems.

Is there anything that says BD+ is actually going to be used for movies?

 

[Bobbler]

Until the BDA clarifies this(why haven't they?), it's still a large question mark.

I imagine for most there wasn't a need for clarification. Add to that AACS spec isn't finalized (or is just being finalized) and it makes sense.

 

[scooby_dooby]

According to Arstechnica on Nov 17th, there are people needing clarification:

There is, however, quite a bit of concern over how Blu-ray's BD+ technology—a dynamic encryption scheme that allows for changing encryption schemes midstream—will affect this.

So, obviously clarification is wanted, and has been for months now.

 

[Bobbler]

According to Arstechnica on Nov 17th, there are people needing clarification:

There is, however, quite a bit of concern over how Blu-ray's BD+ technology—a dynamic encryption scheme that allows for changing encryption schemes midstream—will affect this.

So, obviously clarification is wanted, and has been for months now.

In the grand scheme of potential buyers, I think the few people on the internet that actually care about this stuff are not what I'd call a substantial portion of the users. Which is what I meant; most people don't dig into this stuff and take things at face value, it's the speculation crowd that want the answers (which are not _most_).

Assuming that BD+ is actually used, where is there anything in BD+ that goes against something like MMC or completely disallows such a thing? ... (from what I've read about it) BD+ is to prevent another situation like we have with DVD where when CSS was cracked DVDs where essentially crackable for good with no copy protection on them -- the keys can change midstream and be different for different discs. A ripped MMC disc (or streamed) is going to inevitably be some DRMed to wazoo format.

 

[scooby_dooby]

In the grand scheme of potential buyers, I think the few people on the internet that actually care about this stuff are not what I'd call a substantial portion of the users. Which is what I meant; most people don't dig into this stuff and take things at face value, it's the speculation crowd that want the answers (which are not _most_).

I thought we were talking about the concerns of HP, MS, Intel and other potential BR/HD-DVD backers? Not potential buyers.

 

[Bobbler]

I thought we were talking about the concerns of HP, MS, Intel and other potential BR/HD-DVD backers? Not potential buyers.

I didn't see HP, MS or Intel saying they wanted more information about it. If you want to argue semantics of a comment I made on the side, we can, but this topic has gone off topic quite a bit already.

 

[Hardknock]

Microsoft: No Blu-Ray for 360

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/681/681546p1.html

January 17, 2006 - Microsoft stated today that the company is fully committed to HD-DVD and has "absolutely no plans" to support other formats such as Sony's Blu-Ray technology. This affirmation comes amid speculation prompted by comments made by Peter Moore, the company's Vice President of Marketing, at the recently completed Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Tokyo that the Xbox 360 could support Blu-Ray if the technology triumphed in the next-generation DVD format battle.



In clarifying the company's position, Microsoft stated that it was "important to understand the context in which [Moore's] statement was made. Microsoft firmly stands behind the HD-DVD format as the best choice for our consumers."

Microsoft went on to contend that the Xbox 360 is already a "future-proofed" system and cites its intention to offer a peripheral HD-DVD drive as evidence of the system's "flexibility to adapt" to the needs of consumers. The company denies that it has a Blu-Ray "back-up plan" should that prove to be the preferred next-generation optical format.

 

[mckmas8808]

Looks like Peter Moore opened his mouth a little too soon. Now I really wonder if MS has a Blu-ray backup plan? If not...

 

[Hardknock]

Looks like Peter Moore opened his mouth a little too soon. Now I really wonder if MS has a Blu-ray backup plan? If not...

In clarifying the company's position, Microsoft stated that it was "important to understand the context in which [Moore's] statement was made. Microsoft firmly stands behind the HD-DVD format as the best choice for our consumers."

What part of this did you not understand?

 

[randycat99]

damage control

...sort of like, "Yeah, when I said 'chocolate', I really meant dark chocolate mixed with white milk, resulting in a tasty drink. Yeah, that's the ticket!"

 

[one]

In clarifying the company's position, Microsoft stated that it was "important to understand the context in which [Moore's] statement was made. Microsoft firmly stands behind the HD-DVD format as the best choice for our consumers."

Microsoft went on to contend that the Xbox 360 is already a "future-proofed" system and cites its intention to offer a peripheral HD-DVD drive as evidence of the system's "flexibility to adapt" to the needs of consumers. The company denies that it has a Blu-Ray "back-up plan" should that prove to be the preferred next-generation optical format.

They say they have "flexibility to adapt" but are not flexible enough to support Blu-ray. Weird.