Real next-gen war Ken Kutaragi vs. Peter Moore

[Hardknock]

Wow dude you're an angry guy! Chillax.

Anyway I expect a turnaround in Sony's electronics business in the next couple of years; I have faith with their recent LCD TV penetration in both the US and Japan and in Stringer's comments in his recent interview.

If not, whatever - just live and enjoy life!

Digitimes US LCD Penetration

It's not about retail space xbd. Sony has to buy their LCD panels from Samsung and other manufacturers and has not been able to turn a profit on their HDTVs like the other big players. They've made very bad business decisions in the past and are paying for them now. They focused more on Plasma over LCDs(which is costing them a lot), they fucked around and let iPod dominate the digital music player scene. And their movie division has released bomb after bomb, losing money hand over fist. Hopefully Sony can turn it around(and I believe they can), but Sony will never be as they once were IMO. They have too many competiters that have equal or better products at lower prices.

 

[Carl B]

It's not about retail space xbd. Sony has to buy their LCD panels from Samsung and other manufacturers and has not been able to turn a profit on their HDTVs like the other big players. They've made very bad business decisions in the past and are paying for them now. They focused more on Plasma over LCDs(which is costing them a lot), they fucked around and let iPod dominate the digital music player scene. And their movie division has released bomb after bomb, losing money hand over fist. Hopefully Sony can turn it around(and I believe they can), but Sony will never be as they once were IMO. They have too many competiters that have equal or better products at lower prices.

Well actually their LCD ops are seemingly profitable (as per their quarterly report), it's the legacy business that's dragging them down still. I agree that plasma was a mistake. But they don't actually source panels from Samsung, they have a 50 (or is it 51?) percent stake in the factory these panels are coming out of. Besides I'm not posting this graph as a statement that 'Sony has arrived' or anthing, I just thought it was an interesting snippet on the topic of Sony's TV performance.

(and it is! )

 

[blakjedi]

That dialogue sounds like WWE or even worse WWF dialogue! Remember wrestling is NOT fake but it is FIXED .

I dont really believe that it happened.

I admire MS because I like their OS and Office sofftware.
I admire Sony Hardware because they are highly functional and stylish.

I feel Peter Moores pain but in reality I feel like Tom Kalinske, Peter Moore and Bernie Stolar as well as SoJ have more to do with Sega's demise than anyone else.

I remember in an interview in late 1993 early 1994 (gamepro? EGM?) Kalinske said something to the effect of "we can bring out the most powerful console in the world tomorrow if we wanted to..." Well they should of cause PS whipped Saturns ass. I admit that and am a Sega phile. Stolar and Moore are all talk to me and I wish Moore DIDNT work for MS. Allard is better but only slightly. Bach is a business man and should be running the Xbox division.

 

[mckmas8808]

That dialogue sounds like WWE or even worse WWF dialogue! Remember wrestling is NOT fake but it is FIXED .

I dont really believe that it happened.

What don't you believe happened? I could easily see Ken asking Peter to come check out the PS3 videos and then having snip back at him with a come check some real games comment. I'm just curious what's fake?

 

[Vince]

It's not about retail space xbd. Sony has to buy their LCD panels from Samsung

Not true, they own their own 7th generation LCD production facility via their joint-venture with Samsung.

And they also, last I heard, have a lead in the micro-display catagory, which I would expect to only increase with the state-side introduction od SXRD.

They've made very bad business decisions in the past and are paying for them now. They focused more on Plasma over LCDs(which is costing them a lot), they fucked around and let iPod dominate the digital music player scene.

While nobody can dispute their insistence on using ATRAC3x has cost them; your comment on Plasma over LCD is incorrect. It's my understanding that Sony was somewhat agnostic in the current technologies and has banked heavily on them being transient, with their heavy R&D being in OLED and SXRD. Which is why they JVed with Samsung on LCD over creating their own fab.

And Spiderman.... Spiderman. Their catalog of digital media is also immense and will be highly lucritive for them. Sony is a company which is somewhat awkward as they own the content and front-end content creation houses, and they have the back-end CE products ranging from PlayStation to Bravia. They just need to link the two... although alot of that has to do with technology that's been limiting.

 

[Ty]

They focused more on Plasma over LCDs(which is costing them a lot)

You sure about this? I don't think Sony even makes their own plasma panels.

 

[Powderkeg]

You sure about this? I don't think Sony even makes their own plasma panels.

They've got their full PlasmaPro line of televisions.

 

[blakjedi]

SXRD technology is the cats ass...

...thats my new saying "the cats ass" LOL

Bravias are nice but arent Qualia's better?

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Interesting article

Interesting article. I like story of moore, uneducated shoe salesmen who becomes successful by self-training and experience. I like how gates wanted PS2 to have windows! How funny! Surprised that Kutaragi predicted Microsoft would be bigger threat than Nintendo before Xbox and that he wants to kill Microsoft. Looks like behind scenes it is like a real war between these companies and maybe when Gates wanted PS2 to have windows, he threatened that alternative is Microsoft console so maybe thats how Kutaragi knew about this.

However, I do not remember Kutaragi ever saying PS2 will have games with Toy Story graphics. That sounds like a mistake in article.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

After approaching Sony, MS approached Nintendo before going their own way. I don't think they threatened a new console. I think that came as an after thought. After failing to get MSOS in the consoles MS had to make the choice to either forget it or make their own. Doubt it occured to them prior to that.

As for KK saying ToyStory graphics, from what I've read Sony never made such obviously false claims. Such claims tended to come from the media. eg. The 'render StarWars in realtime' came from George Lucas, not Sony. I do remember (though maybe wrongly) reading that MS actually did say XB could do ToyStory graphics in realtime.

 

[Phil]

I think Kutaragi did say something along those lines, but you always have to take into consideration who he was addressing with such claims. Often, when talking about future products with people that barely understand a fraction of what is possible and what not in technical terms, it's easier to come with visual comparisons to bring your point across. Talk about "20 million polygons per second" and you immediately loose your audience... however saying something like "expect graphics in the quality of your last favorite CGI movie ToyStory" and you're obviously going to get much further in emphasizing the difference and advances in what is going to be possible when going from PSone to a next generation console.


The falacy was that this claim spread across to technical boards and taken the wrong way or greatly exagerated into a claim it never ment to be.

 

[London Geezer]

What's so good about this new Bravia line really though compared to the others?

Since they use the same panels as the Samsung LCDs, the thing that puts them above many competitors is the Wega Engine and the image processing it brings to the table.

All companies have different image processing chipsets on their LCDs, Philips has PixelPlus2 (amazing by the way), Samsung has DNIe (very nice), Sony has the Wega Engine which is one damn fine piece of technology.

Ultimately it all depends on personal preferences, someone might like the look of PixelPlus2 panels better than Sony's ones for example, and no one should tell him "he's wrong". When buying a new LCD TV, one should just go to the store, look at the panels and buy what he feels he likes best, not what people on the internet tell him about how the Wega Engine might be more advanced than DNIe processing.

Sony seems to be slowly getting their act back together, it definately shows in their new Bravia range. I guess they had a choice of either put out GOOD equipment or lower the prices, and unsurprisingly the prices haven't budged much, while the equipment has improved
And it definately explains the spike in Sony LCD sales (coincidental with the release of the Bravia range i believe), it seems people are still willing to pay a bit more for Sony products if they see that they're good, like they always did. Says a lot about what we've been discussing about PS3 pricing and general Sony pricing policies.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Ultimately it all depends on personal preferences, someone might like the look of PixelPlus2 panels better than Sony's ones for example, and no one should tell him "he's wrong". When buying a new LCD TV, one should just go to the store, look at the panels and buy what he feels he likes best, not what people on the internet tell him about how the Wega Engine might be more advanced than DNIe processing.

Isn't it best to go by tech specs? Surely if DNIe runs at 300 MHz and WEGA chipsets run at 250MHz, we'd choose the higher clocked one because it has a bigger number? That's the right way to choose, right? Bigger numbers is what matters, right? I don't want inferior tech with inferior numbers...

 

[London Geezer]

Isn't it best to go by tech specs? Surely if DNIe runs at 300 MHz and WEGA chipsets run at 250MHz, we'd choose the higher clocked one because it has a bigger number? That's the right way to choose, right? Bigger numbers is what matters, right? I don't want inferior tech with inferior numbers...

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm........................... right....?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

...

 

[blakjedi]

Ultimately it all depends on personal preferences, someone might like the look of PixelPlus2 panels better than Sony's ones for example, and no one should tell him "he's wrong". When buying a new LCD TV, one should just go to the store, look at the panels and buy what he feels he likes best, not what people on the internet tell him about how the Wega Engine might be more advanced than DNIe processing.

Lots of times the user is fooled by bright/dim lighting, mood setting and lack of calibration.

For example almost any LCD/Plasma in a dimly lit cozy setting looks great especially when its setup to be the focus of a "home theater" setup. But it could be pure shytes compared to the non featured model just outside the room...

The company technician representing some mfg may come into a store to push a certain product line. He probably will calibrate his product correctly while the joes working at TVMART will do nothing to the LCD next to it except just recieve the drop shipment, pull it out the box and turn it on. Naturally the non calibrated looks shytes...

Its very hard to buy the "right tv" even based on just looking at it.

 

[Powderkeg]

As for KK saying ToyStory graphics, from what I've read Sony never made such obviously false claims. Such claims tended to come from the media. eg. The 'render StarWars in realtime' came from George Lucas, not Sony. I do remember (though maybe wrongly) reading that MS actually did say XB could do ToyStory graphics in realtime.

Actually, yes, some Sony rep (I don't know exactly who) did make claims of having models equal to Toy Story, or some such claim. Most sites have twisted it beyond the original meaning, but there was a comment comparing the PS2 and Toy Story made by Sony reps.


Ahh, here it is:

The new microprocessor will allow users to handle nearly 50 times more 3-D image data compared with Sega Enterprises Ltd.'s (7964) Dreamcast game console. It will also let users produce game characters comparable in image quality to Walt Disney's Toy Story.

Original source is Nihon Keizai Shimbun Monday morning edition, March 1, 1999.

http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/mirrors/www.thegia.com/mirror/news/n990228b.html

 

[London Geezer]

Actually i remember vividly a MS rep going a little bit like this on an interview prior to Xbox launch:

"You see, the PS2 can move 75 million polygons per second, that's equal to Toy Story graphics... But the Xbox can move 250 million polygons per second, so IMAGINE the possibilities!!!"

That was coming from a MS rep...

 

[Powderkeg]

Actually i remember vividly a MS rep going a little bit like this on an interview prior to Xbox launch:

"You see, the PS2 can move 75 million polygons per second, that's equal to Toy Story graphics... But the Xbox can move 250 million polygons per second, so IMAGINE the possibilities!!!"

That was coming from a MS rep...

I don't remember that, but I do remember an MS rep saying the Xbox could also achieve graphics comperable to Toy Story. In fact, it wasn't just any MS rep, it was Seamus Blackley.

"One of the basic premises of the Xbox is to put the power in the hands of the artist," Blackley said, which is why Xbox developers "are achieving a level of visual detail you really get in 'Toy Story.'"

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-250632.html?legacy=cnet

They are both equally guilty of spreading corporate bullshit IMO.

 

[Ty]

They've got their full PlasmaPro line of televisions.

They make those panels themselves?