"Blu-ray support a last minute switch, Microsoft says..."

[aaaaa00]

Isn't Rick Marquardt (Senior Vice President/General Manager, Warner Advanced Media Operations) the one who owns a significant amount of patents conserning CD and DVD pressing thechinque.
No wonder he's so strongly behind HD-DVD, I wouldn't want to loose that money if I was him

He's retired from Warner. He's very clearly said he has no financial stake or royalties involving either BD or HD DVD, these days he's at a startup company that's doing something unrelated to the optical disc formats.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6260675&&#post6260675

I have no financial gain for whoever wins. I have left Deluxe just recently and have taken a job with a new technology start-up company working on anti-theft models. I have some short term consulting deals to carry me over.

 

[rabidrabbit]

So what has he done with all those patents then?

 

[expletive]

I swear this board is losing IQ points by the day. So expletive both Intel and MS are going to take their number 1 product out of the top 2 Computer hardware makers in the world. Right. Does that even sound reasonalbe to you? Over a codec? Do you think MS and Intel would be willing to lose millions of dollars per week over a darn Blu-ray codec?

My response was to avaya who was claiming that people are buying 'dell' not windows or intel. I disagree with this 100% and used that example to make my point. I think the context of the response is important so review that before you tell me i'm responsible for bringing down the forum.

So to clarify, I dont think MS or intel would pull their products from dell and HP (maybe one or the other tho? ) becuase that would prove mutually destructive. However, i do think that such a move would prove much more destructive for the OEMs then MS.

J

 

[London Geezer]

I swear this board is losing IQ points by the day

No, but i'm sure i've been losing lots of IQ points by reading some of the things that get posted here, especially in the last 2 weeks or so.

 

[BlueTsunami]

My response was to avaya who was claiming that people are buying 'dell' not windows or intel. I disagree with this 100% and used that example to make my point. I think the context of the response is important so review that before you tell me i'm responsible for bringing down the forum.

So to clarify, I dont think MS or intel would pull their products from dell and HP (maybe one or the other tho? ) becuase that would prove mutually destructive. However, i do think that such a move would prove much more destructive for the OEMs then MS.

J

That would never happen...because it would be a Kamikaze move from both Intel and MS and destructive to HP and Dell (as you stated). If that where to happen though, Dell and HP can choose from "alternative" windows OS's, so finding an OS wouldn't be an issue. People wouldn't have to relearn the OS..because most people just write out word documents, download music, chat on IM and browse the web. Linux can emulate (visually) Windows in a very dramatic way also

Now MS and Intel would have to rely on other OEMs that they supply for. To them it would be a huge hit also (not on the scale of Dell and HP) but they've lost a HUGE revenue in Dell and HP. Especially Dell. So it wouldn't be catastrophic, but that would be a big shift nonetheless.

I also believe people buy Dell and HP. Not Windows. Reason being, most of the general users buy hardware and Windows is just there. But if they where shipped with a new OS, thats "windows like" it wouldn't make a difference to them. If they can do most of the basic day to day tasks then I can see it being embraced.

Well...thats the end of my techno hippy dream

 

[a688]

That would never happen...because it would be a Kamikaze move from both Intel and MS and destructive to HP and Dell (as you stated). If that where to happen though, Dell and HP can choose from "alternative" windows OS's, so finding an OS wouldn't be an issue. People wouldn't have to relearn the OS..because most people just write out word documents, download music, chat on IM and browse the web. Linux can emulate (visually) Windows in a very dramatic way also

Now MS and Intel would have to rely on other OEMs that they supply for. To them it would be a huge hit also (not on the scale of Dell and HP) but they've lost a HUGE revenue in Dell and HP. Especially Dell. So it wouldn't be catastrophic, but that would be a big shift nonetheless.

I also believe people buy Dell and HP. Not Windows. Reason being, most of the general users buy hardware and Windows is just there. But if they where shipped with a new OS, thats "windows like" it wouldn't make a difference to them. If they can do most of the basic day to day tasks then I can see it being embraced.

Well...thats the end of my techno hippy dream

People buy Dell and HP but they also expect Windows because that is what they are used to. Unless somebody else they know and trust shows them something different AND they can use it, they will be "buying" windows as well.

 

[expletive]

That would never happen...because it would be a Kamikaze move from both Intel and MS and destructive to HP and Dell (as you stated). If that where to happen though, Dell and HP can choose from "alternative" windows OS's, so finding an OS wouldn't be an issue. People wouldn't have to relearn the OS..because most people just write out word documents, download music, chat on IM and browse the web. Linux can emulate (visually) Windows in a very dramatic way also

Now MS and Intel would have to rely on other OEMs that they supply for. To them it would be a huge hit also (not on the scale of Dell and HP) but they've lost a HUGE revenue in Dell and HP. Especially Dell. So it wouldn't be catastrophic, but that would be a big shift nonetheless.

I also believe people buy Dell and HP. Not Windows. Reason being, most of the general users buy hardware and Windows is just there. But if they where shipped with a new OS, thats "windows like" it wouldn't make a difference to them. If they can do most of the basic day to day tasks then I can see it being embraced.

Well...thats the end of my techno hippy dream

What software will they be running on this new OS exactly?



We'll chalk it up to 'agree to disagree' on this one. People will find the manufacturers (i.e. gateway) to buy windows, they wont switch to some new OS with no software or support.

What would be a real b@stard move by MS is luring one of the big 2 over HD-DVD by telling htem if they do, they will cut off the other. "Hey compaq, if you switch to HD-DVD, we'll cut off your major comptetitor,Dell." Thats's just my imagination running with it though.

J

 

[BlueTsunami]

What software will they be running on this new OS exactly?



We'll chalk it up to 'agree to disagree' on this one. People will find the manufacturers (i.e. gateway) to buy windows, they wont switch to some new OS with no software or support.

What would be a real b@stard move by MS is luring one of the big 2 over HD-DVD by telling htem if they do, they will cut off the other. "Hey compaq, if you switch to HD-DVD, we'll cut off your major comptetitor,Dell." Thats's just my imagination running with it though.

J

Thats the thing. Its clearly a MS advantage. The way I see it though, MS has some stakes in HD-DVD...but I don't think enough to strain relationships with Dell. It would be a huge shift for Dell to go and pull a Linux swap (actually, i'm with you on its impossiblity) but its an option if MS leaves them flat. Also, Linux has a HUGE software catalog...you just have to know how to get it. But with Dell...all the items that are commonly used (WebBrowser, Text Editors and an Office Suite) can all be preloaded...most for free.

That scenario though opens up Dell to them charging fees for the OS and apps...but i'm getting ahead of myself on a pipe dream

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That move'd also be killed off in a blink through anti-competition laws.

 

[BlueTsunami]

That move'd also be killed off in a blink through anti-competition laws.

Without Anti-Competition laws...where do you think Microsoft would currently be right now . Now thats a scary thought.

 

[avaya]

Toshiba holds door open to unified DVDs

By TAIGA URANAKA
Staff writer

Toshiba Corp. is willing to compromise on creating a unified format for next-generation DVDs if it can be done by yearend, a senior official in charge of format negotiations said Wednesday.
"We have no intention of giving up on creating a single format," Yoshihide Fujii, president and CEO of Toshiba's Digital Media Network Company, said at a news conference to unveil the product lineup for the holiday season.

His comment came a day after Microsoft Corp. and Intel Corp. decided to throw their support behind HD DVD, the next-generation format promoted by Toshiba….

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20050929a3.htm

Please for the sake of everyone get this sorted.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Though they've said there'll already be no compromise as long as Sony won't budge from their whatever-it-was format thingy they weren't going to budge on. Still, wasn't that with KK in the driver's seat for Sony, and now he's been moved off a compromise might be reached?

 

[expletive]

Though they've said there'll already be no compromise as long as Sony won't budge from their whatever-it-was format thingy they weren't going to budge on. Still, wasn't that with KK in the driver's seat for Sony, and now he's been moved off a compromise might be reached?

I htink at this point it probably benefits Sony to unify the standard. They can still incorporate it into the PS3 while the 360 is stuck with DVD9.

J

 

[wco81]

Blu-Ray has said they won't give up the optical format, which delivers the higher capacity.

IOW, there's not much they could compromise on.

There was some suggestion that as a concession, they might swap BD-J for iHP but with MS now being adamant about things like BD+ and managed copy (and probably iHP since they hate Java so much), it might be tougher.

You would think they're just a supplier of things like VC-1 and iHP but in fact, they are a founding member of the AACS so they try to exert leverage that way.

The chief engineer at Toshiba is also a hardass too, from the sound of it. The CEO is a new guy so who knows if he has any real power yet.

It would suck if they compromised on some specs. like the capacity, higher transfer rates and better recordablity for the sake of a unified format. I don't really care about BD-J vs. iHP but that really doesn't do Toshiba any good, it would be something MS would be happy about.

Some believe that Toshiba is bluffing, that they're not ready to deliver players, which is why their launch is delayed. Toshiba with its HVD investment seems to be hedging its bets too.

Also a recent rumor that Warner was considering bailing, even though it has patent rights, because it would be more valuable to them to get as man releases of its library out and as quickly as possible. Supposedly they were ready to announce Blu-Ray support or bailing on HD-DVD if MS didn't endorse HD-DVD soon.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Ka-Me-Ah-Me-Ah Kuuutaaaagarrrriii!!!!

Though they've said there'll already be no compromise as long as Sony won't budge from their whatever-it-was format thingy they weren't going to budge on. Still, wasn't that with KK in the driver's seat for Sony, and now he's been moved off a compromise might be reached?

Yeah, Kutagari is one firey asian. Its probably best that they did have him step down from a postition that requires a little more compromise and delicate touch.

Oh yeah....and appearently when Kutagari gets excited....he goes Super Sayain. Heres a never before seen picture of KK after the unveiling of the PS3..

He's excited

 

[avaya]

Though they've said there'll already be no compromise as long as Sony won't budge from their whatever-it-was format thingy they weren't going to budge on. Still, wasn't that with KK in the driver's seat for Sony, and now he's been moved off a compromise might be reached?

The article says Toshiba were not convinced about the disc structure and the BDA wouldn't give an inch on that front. They were going for Blu-Ray disc + HD-DVD software were they not?

Was KK ever in charge of these things? I thought this sort of issue is the CE division/board of executives responsibility.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There was some suggestion that as a concession, they might swap BD-J for iHP but with MS now being adamant about things like BD+ and managed copy (and probably iHP since they hate Java so much), it might be tougher.

AFAIK MS have nothing to do with HDDVD specs, so they'll have no input in these discussions, other then circulating papers on what they think a net-gen optical format needs.

Was KK ever in charge of these things? I thought this sort of issue is the CE division/board of executives responsibility.

I believe KK headed this area during BRD's past discussions, but has been moved of to solely focus on the gaming division. I'm too lazy to Google the details though!

 

[hongcho]

Toshiba has been in an interesting position. They are the key player in HD-DVD, but they are the "T" in STI that developed CELL which is used in PS3 that has a BD drive.

From the way the whole company acted on HD-DVD, the "T" division does not yield that much power within the Toshiba. I am sure as a whole company they do want something to be resolved for the next generation optical medium.

However, I think it will take too much out of Sony to make compromises on the physical format of BD (what about the drivers for PS3?).

Hong.

P.S. AVSForum is the place to get information if you are interested in anything AV just like B3D is the place to get information for PC/Console graphics technologies.

 

[MfA]

The article says Toshiba were not convinced about the disc structure and the BDA wouldn't give an inch on that front.

They can't give an inch, the discs aren't that thick.

You can't mix and match between these technologies. The choice between the physical discs was always going to be a complete defeat for one side, and the only way either side would have given in would have been with a huge pay off ... because both have a lot of patents and existing development riding on the disc structure. It seems they would both rather trust in themselves to be able to outcompete the other in the market.

Anyone who assigns blame on either side to compromise about this is either naive or purposely spreading lies.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The software format doesn't matter for PS3, has presumably it's video playback software can be updated. Any hardware compromises have to be found before PS3 starts production. And isn't the BRD format restricted to supporting existing BDROMs anyway? Can they change the hardware spec without alientating existing BR drive owners?