NPD January 2009

[dobwal]

Launch prices of $400 and $500/600 were already anomalous by that thinking. And would seem to contradict in spirit the mantle of the 'struggles' you feel MS would not have ignored in coming out of the XBox gen.

$200 from $400 (essentially) after 2 1/2 years isn't all that shoddy a move IMO in terms of the price reduction. As for Nintendo, well, they had probably planned on lowering the price, true, but they needn't maintain it due to the high prices of the others, they just simply lucked out by having a piece of kit in super-high demand.

$400.00 makes sense when you are the first and only player on the market. The PS2 retail in Japan for USD 380.00.

The PS3 was never intended to be $500-$600 dollars. Sony had alot of misstep going into this generation. Do you not remember Sony and Toshiba announced that their partnership would be mass producing 45 nm about a year before Intel's target for 45nm. Sony had Bluray prototypes in 2000 and recorders on shelves in 2003. Sony depended on perfect execution on their PS3 plans and failed on several fronts, hence the large retail price of the PS3.

I not saying the price reductions are shoddy other than the PS3 which is limited by its costly components but MS and Ninty have benefited from Sony woes by allowing them to maintain a conservative price reduction strategy that in MS case has allowed some cushion from the RROD fiasco. RROD would of hurt alot worse if the market would have played out in more traditional fashion.

 

[dobwal]

As a statement of fact that's certainly true, but my reference to the dot-coms was meant to highlight how very few of those companies go on to survive. MS was uniquely positioned to sustain the grind required. Sony isn't going to leave the business based on these losses this gen, but I don't think they can be expected to grind away to the tune of losses beyond $5B on a single platform.

We have different views on situation and it seems that we aren't going to convince each other of our points.

My last comment on this point is this.

The PS3 has sold 20+ million plus consoles this generation. However, the "Playstation" brand has sold over 240 million consoles and 50 million handhelds. Its has been the biggest name in console gaming and one of the biggest in gaming in general.

It is my opinion that when you have a brand as big as the playstation brand then maintaining its influence and strength trumphs any need to take profit losses to minimal levels that would take you to sub 100k months.

 

[joker454]

It is my opinion that when you have a brand as big as the playstation brand then maintaining its influence and strength trumphs any need to take profit losses to minimal levels that would take you to sub 100k months.

Tell that to Sony shareholders

 

[tha_con]

It is my opinion that when you have a brand as big as the playstation brand then maintaining its influence and strength trumphs any need to take profit losses to minimal levels that would take you to sub 100k months.

Please remind me how long it's been since Sony has been sub 100K in NA?

 

[dobwal]

Please remind me how long it's been since Sony has been sub 100K in NA?

summer 07

 

[tha_con]

summer 07

Right. It was something like 3 months correct? During the summer months where consoles usually sell the least?

Funny that you could extrapolate 3 months of sales to somehow reflect over 27 months of sales.

 

[dobwal]

Right. It was something like 3 months correct? During the summer months where consoles usually sell the least?

Funny that you could extrapolate 3 months of sales to somehow reflect over 27 months of sales.

What are you talking about?

Im looking at three months of sales when the PS3 obviously couldn't hold a $600 price tag and dipped into 80K months during the summer. Now here we are 20 months later with the PS3 holding a $400 dollar price tag for the last 15 months and maybe looking to extend that price for another 6-8 months. This past january represent the worst january for the PS3 on record. The $400 PS3 isn't competing against $350 360Premium and a $249 (or $279?) Core like last year but a $299 Pro and $199 Arcade that has alot more traction than it had last year.

Yet you think that there is something funny with me believing sub 100k months this summer is a very feasible possibility?

 

[Arwin]

Yet you think that there is something funny with me for believing sub 100k months this summer is a very feasible possibility?

Hey, I for one think you could very well be right - if, and that's a big if, Sony keeps its current price point. But that's a really, really big if. I'm going to go with Pachter to expect a pricedrop to 299 around April, when the new fiscal year starts (after all, this year's - revised - targets have already been met).

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Hell as it is, it's a distinct possibility that Feb. and Mar. could see sub 100k PS3 sales if much isn't done.

If the exclusives don't push sales significantly I certainly wouldn't be surprised. And considering KZ2 doesn't hit until the end of Feb. It's a definite possibility... I'm not sure SF4 as a cross platform title will be enough to boost PS3 sales, but hard to tell on that.

Regards,
SB

 

[Richard]

A lot more.

RRPs
Arcade: £129.99
Pro: £169.99
Elite: £229.99

These RRPs also include VAT at 15%. At today's rate, net of tax, these prices equate to:

Arcade: $161.24 (-$38.75, compared to the US MSRP)
Pro: $210.86 (-$89.13)
Elite: $285.29 (-$114.70)

For completeness:
PS3: $372.11
Wii: $223.32

Thanks. Though for the rest of Europe MS and the other two have an advantage, no? Averaging the prices from three large retail chains (Fnac, Game, GameStop), also including VAT:

Arcade: 219€ = $275.453 (~ +$76, compared to US MSRP)
Pro: 259€ = $325.748 (~ +$25)
Elite: 299€ = $376.057 (~ -$25)

At least in these stores it seems MS is bringing in a little more money especially in the SKUs that have smaller margins (in the US).

EDIT: Although UK is the biggest market in the EU, and taking into account I'm definitely NOT an expert on any console-related subject, I'd think the rest of the EU combined would match or exceed the UK.

 

[bkilian]

Could someone explain to me what does the Blu-HD war have to do with the January NPD report?

If you guys want to discuss the history of the format war and what could have been if <insert something here> was different, go ahead and create a(nother) thread about it. Don't anybody take this personally but this reminds me of a Battle of Gettysburg reenactment.

I know, I think I'm having PTSD flashbacks

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Thanks. Though for the rest of Europe MS and the other two have an advantage, no? Averaging the prices from three large retail chains (Fnac, Game, GameStop), also including VAT:

Arcade: 219€ = $275.453 (~ +$76, compared to US MSRP)
Pro: 259€ = $325.748 (~ +$25)
Elite: 299€ = $376.057 (~ -$25)

At least in these stores it seems MS is bringing in a little more money especially in the SKUs that have smaller margins (in the US).

EDIT: Although UK is the biggest market in the EU, and taking into account I'm definitely NOT an expert on any console-related subject, I'd think the rest of the EU combined would match or exceed the UK.

Those prices are wrong though. The official Euro prices for the units are 179€ Arcade, 239€, Pro and 299€ Elite. Did you actually managed to find a 219€ Arcade somewhere?

 

[catisfit]

Those prices are wrong though. The official Euro prices for the units are 179€ Arcade, 239€, Pro and 299€ Elite. Did you actually managed to find a 219€ Arcade somewhere?

Also, are you (Richard) sure you removed tax from those prices in your original calculation prior to comparison?

Regarding the UK vs Europe, as of end 08, Microsoft were claiming 8m 360s shipped throughout Europe, while according to GfK-ChartTrack its LTD in the UK was 3.2m. Given that, the UK accounts for ~40% of all 360 sales in Europe.

 

[Gubbi]

There is list price and there is spot price.

Here in Denmark you can now get the Arcade for 1186 DKK, or €159. That is with VAT included (25% extra), without VAT it would be €127.

Given the business climate I'm guessing these prices are caused by liquidation of failing etailers/retailers. Time to take advantage of the economic crisis.

Pros and Elites has risen (4-5%) slightly from their pre-christmas pricelevels.

Cheers

 

[Richard]

Those prices are wrong though. The official Euro prices for the units are 179€ Arcade, 239€, Pro and 299€ Elite. Did you actually managed to find a 219€ Arcade somewhere?

*cough*

Over here, the only arcades I could find were bundle boxes at that price (well average of the three but IIRC the lowest was still above €220)*. The pros had more price variance. All the elites I found (non-bundle) in my quick search were €299.

catisfit: if you mean before the conversion to USD then no.

* I doubled checked the FNAC store and found this one for €190 specifically named "Jasper", heh.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

*cough*

Well either the Arcades are somewhat rare in your country or something weird is going on, because first of all, that is not an Arcade unit.
It's an old Core unit without HDMI and the same place has 60GB Pro for 249€, so obviously the price is messed up. The official Euro prices are 179, 239 and 299 and I would
say that in most places you can actually get them cheaper.

 

[Zaphod]

There is something weird going on with 360 pricing and availability going on here too. Before Christmas, all SKUs were abundant and priced to move (with the Arcade @ cereal pox price prices), but now there's hardly a 360 to be found (at least at retail).

Perhaps some deliberate channel stuffing/stock clearing in Q4 that is now causing localized shortages in their least important markets while they make changes (transition all lines to Jasper or whatever) on the manufacturing side?

 

[zed]

is newzealand the cheapest place in the world I wonder

http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.filereader?499d05e70055c92c2740c0a87f3b0683+EN/catalogs/CTG0002070
arcade nz$329 = $167US
arcade nz$329 = €133

this includes a X year guarantee (whatever that is in nz) + including sales tax

 

[Gubbi]

There is something weird going on with 360 pricing and availability going on here too. Before Christmas, all SKUs were abundant and priced to move (with the Arcade @ cereal pox price prices), but now there's hardly a 360 to be found (at least at retail).

I think it is because of the dollar rally.

The low dollar last summer prompted MS to lower prices across Europe. The dollar has since rallyed 30%, this means producing goods and sending them to Europe is more expensive.

Cheers

 

[Teasy]

And in the prior two generations, Sony's strategy was significantly more successful than Nintendo's at making money. Nintendo's strategy was borne as much if not more out of necessity (they are no where near as large a company as MS or Sony) as preference, IMO. If they had the resources, maybe they would have attempted to apply the PS1/2 model with the GC. There's no way to know, because it was never an option for them. The Sega example showed pretty clearly that you need deep pockets to play the game by Sony's rules. So they instead aimed for and achieved their moderate success with the GC.

You have facts and figures to back those claims up I suppose?

Obviously not then..