Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[Deleted member 11852]

Howabout saying the Scorpio will use the fewest percentage of uncompressed pixels period. I mean uncompressed is better than compressed any day

Remember Microsoft did edit their initial reveal video to remove the reference to "the highest quality pixels that anybody has seen.". That's not a whole lot different!

well I guess if they launch one game that does native 4K they could technically say whatever they want.

There are already native 4K games on Pro.

 

[mpg1]

There are already native 4K games on Pro.

yeah but not really new AAA games. I'm guessing Forza (non-horizon) will do native 4K 60fps.

 

[iroboto]

While more accurate that doesn't differentiate Scorpio from PS4 Pro. Scorpio is a year behind Pro and what you just wrote is also true of Pro which was launching within weeks. Why wait for Scorpio when Pro does that now?

Right, ideally, MS didn't squander the 365 days after 4Pro launch.
This question is certainly something they will need to address; resolution and frame rate alone is not enough for Scorpio to succeed in differentiating itself from... hell Xbox One. lol

 

[Deleted member 11852]

yeah but not really new AAA games. I'm guessing Forza (non-horizon) will do native 4K 60fps.

Guessing at how things may turn out is exactly how Microsoft have seemingly got here.

 

[mpg1]

Guessing at how things may turn out is exactly how Microsoft have seemingly got here.

In the whitepaper Eurogamer got it says that Microsoft had one of it's games running on Scorpio hardware @4K. Richard Leadbetter speculated that it was likely Forza...and I sort of agree if you look at how well Forza Apex runs on certain PC specs.

 

[Jay]

Remember Microsoft did edit their initial reveal video to remove the reference to "the highest quality pixels that anybody has seen.". That's not a whole lot different!

so what is the problem with this?
to me that's the message they should be giving, instead of 4k
I understand that regardless if uncompressed pixels was something they could explain, the fact they would have to was the issue, especially for a simple pre reveal message that they have to give. Was something much like checkerboarding, needing a proper breakdown.

 

[3dilettante]

Microsoft could probably say with some certainty that the larger hadrware gap between the Xbox One and Scorpio will lead to fewer cases where the Pro delivers inconsistent performance or regresses in "enhanced" modes.
While a fair amount could be due to developers not hitting the right balance, or possibly more significant misses (latest Final Fantasy Pro mode patch), Scorpio might have more to offer with an plausible "boost" mode, software support, or just more margin for error--although we may need to wait and see about any surprises.

 

[mrcorbo]

The, "If you don't have a 4k TV, Scorpio will deliver no benefit” statement is the one really questionable statement out of all of them. I get where it came from in that they were afraid of the effect that the Scorpio announcement was going to have on the Xbox One S, but it was bull and they really deserve to take shit for that one. The 4K gaming stuff is just a statement of capability. Scorpio was designed to take Xbox One games and render them natively at 4K. It will certainly be able to do that. Just because that's not all it is capable of, doesn't mean that it is misleading for MS to promote that capability.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

although we may need to wait and see about any surprises.

Yeah, we're not Microsoft. But Microsoft are Microsoft and they seem less convinced about some of the things they have already said about their own product. So uh...

 

[Globalisateur]

yeah but not really new AAA games. I'm guessing Forza (non-horizon) will do native 4K 60fps.

FIFA17 and NBA 2K17 are native 4K @60fps on Pro

 

[iroboto]

The, "If you don't have a 4k TV, Scorpio will deliver no benefit” statement is the one really questionable statement out of all of them.

Agreed. If this statement turns out to be true, everything I've learned and shared with you all is pure bullshit. lol

 

[ramr]

huh? The only information available about the CPU is that it's 8 cores.

MS and AMD have consistently launched tech in XBOX ahead of PC / Consumer. MS intentionally held of a year. If it was just a Vega derivative with Jaguar +, then they would have launched along side the PS4 pro last November.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Agreed. If this statement turns out to be true, everything I've learned and shared with you all is pure bullshit. lol

And this is the crux of the issue. You just can't be sure what that say is actually correct.

 

[Jay]

Agreed. If this statement turns out to be true, everything I've learned and shared with you all is pure bullshit. lol

he came out the next day and (tried) clarified it lol
would be funny if in 1080p mode Scorpio games just wouldn't run.

 

[mpg1]

MS and AMD have consistently launched tech in XBOX ahead of PC / Consumer. MS intentionally held of a year. If it was just a Vega derivative with Jaguar +, then they would have launched along side the PS4 pro last November.

pretty sure the waiting an extra year also had to do with the gpu..

I am not even saying ZEN won't be in it...I'm just saying there is no information other than it is an 8 core cpu..

 

[mrcorbo]

he came out the next day and (tried) clarified it lol
would be funny if in 1080p mode Scorpio games just wouldn't run.

I get the sense they were coming in hot with that announcement in the sense that Phil made the call to announce at E3 late in the game and that's why the messaging was weak. Not saying that they shouldn't be criticized for it regardless, but it would explain why they seemed to still be figuring things out in the immediate aftermath. Seems like they determined that the opportunity to use that E3 conference as the launch platform for their counter to the Pro was more important than waiting to have their shit together.

The fact that it didn't leak ahead of time reinforces this. MS leaks are a meme at this point.

 

[3dilettante]

MS and AMD have consistently launched tech in XBOX ahead of PC / Consumer. MS intentionally held of a year. If it was just a Vega derivative with Jaguar +, then they would have launched along side the PS4 pro last November.

The initial product that shared much of the IP level for the consoles was Bonaire (ISA generation, TrueAudio), which launched first.
Also, I'm not sure the PS4 Pro would be a Vega derivative. It was described as having certain Vega features, but what we know of Vega now leaves some notable gaps. I'm personally unsure if the PS4 Pro's GPU isn't equivalent to the PS4's generation for some notable portions of the architecture.

That was Sony's choice, however. It's not clear where Microsoft would go, although it does seem like the bones of a console chip can show up earlier in a small-die discrete. How Scorpio maintains compatibility with Durango may figure into how different its hardware can be.

 

[zupallinere]

MS and AMD have consistently launched tech in XBOX ahead of PC / Consumer. MS intentionally held of a year. If it was just a Vega derivative with Jaguar +, then they would have launched along side the PS4 pro last November.

As per the leaked whitepaper MS is getting rid of the ESRAM along with reworking entirely how the CPU communicates with the GPU among whatever major changes they are making to the GPU itself. I bet that will be quite audacious enough given the time frames involved. MS has a lot of money but how much they are willing to spend on their Xbox brand is an open question. The Xbox One was launched with the idea that it was going to be the focus of all living room activity and therefore lots of ... mmm synergy there to gain a good ROI but the Scorpio plan would seem to be a bit scaled back at this point.

I dunno being able to say they have the most powerful console ever would seem to be a pretty big deal and if they can get that sucker under $400 that would be yet another big deal.

 

[Globalisateur]

As per the leaked whitepaper MS is getting rid of the ESRAM along with reworking entirely how the CPU communicates with the GPU among whatever major changes they are making to the GPU itself. I bet that will be quite audacious enough given the time frames involved. MS has a lot of money but how much they are willing to spend on their Xbox brand is an open question. The Xbox One was launched with the idea that it was going to be the focus of all living room activity and therefore lots of ... mmm synergy there to gain a good ROI but the Scorpio plan would seem to be a bit scaled back at this point.

I dunno being able to say they have the most powerful console ever would seem to be a pretty big deal and if they can get that sucker under $400 that would be yet another big deal.

Another big deal would be to excite us with promising games like they did with OG xbox and X360.

Forza Horizon at native 4K pixels won't be enough.

 

[Jay]

I get the sense they were coming in hot with that announcement in the sense that Phil made the call to announce at E3 late in the game and that's why the messaging was weak. Not saying that they shouldn't be criticized for it regardless, but it would explain why they seemed to still be figuring things out in the immediate aftermath. Seems like they determined that the opportunity to use that E3 conference as the launch platform for their counter to the Pro was more important than waiting to have their shit together.

The fact that it didn't leak ahead of time reinforces this. MS leaks are a meme at this point.

I'm sure I remember them saying they had a lot of internal debates on if they should reveal Scorpio then, due to x1s being revealed.
so, yea probably late, at the time risky decision that was pushed over the edge by hearing about 4pro etc.

I still think that e3 is when they need to have everything lined up and on point.