Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

[DuckThor Evil]

I generally think IGN's reviews are quite good and if they give a game 9.0 or more it is prone to be a very good game. I'm not sure if Eternal Darkness was 9.6 though, but maybe 9.3, very athmospheric game and one of the finer gems of last gen.

 

[Asher]

Wait, are you saying that Zelda had bad controls, that it wasn't worth any more than a rent, or is this just a nonsequiter?

Zelda's controls on the Wii were lacking, for certain. The lag and the non-1:1 mapping were aggravating.

What I'm saying was if MP3 has frustrating controls, like Zelda for Wii did for me, then it's worth only a rent. Zelda was worth more than a rent for more than those reasons.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Zelda's controls on the Wii were lacking, for certain. The lag and the non-1:1 mapping were aggravating.

I don't understand. "Aggravating?" Was the Wii version made in such a way that you found yourself dying because you couldn't precisely control what your sword was doing? In the Gamecube version, the enemies didn't even have hit zones, so I don't see how 1:1 sword control would have affected anything in that case.

By the way, I read the IGN review of Wreckless:YM a long time ago, and it didn't make the game sound any good. Was it supposed to be awesome or something?

 

[Asher]

I generally think IGN's reviews are quite good and if they give a game 9.0 or more it is prone to be a very good game. I'm not sure if Eternal Darkness was 9.6 though, but maybe 9.3, very athmospheric game and one of the finer gems of last gen.

Sometimes though, they are so far off you have to wonder what they were smoking. I was on the fence, back in 2002(?), with Wreckless: The Yakuza Missions until I saw the 9.0/10 review from IGN. I picked it up. I'd give that game a 5.0/10 at the most, as would most others...

 

[Asher]

The Gamecube version didn't have 1:1 sword play either. You just pressed a button, and the computer took over. How aggravating!

Not aggravating at all, because how could it have 1:1 sword play when you don't have a sword to swing?

The fundamental problem with Wii controls for me is the control experience equivalent of "the uncanny valley". It's close enough to appear realistic, but become immensely frustrating as well.

By the way, I read the IGN review of Wreckless:YM a long time ago, and it didn't make the game sound any good. Was it supposed to be awesome or something?

IGN gave it 9.0/10 for Xbox.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Asher, your just making a fool out of yourself desperetly trying to find things wrong and defend them with useless arguments. I mean, c'mon. Zelda TP has a bad controll scheme? If zelda has a bad controll scheme than what is your idea of a good controll scheme? Not having 1:1 sword movements has nothing to do with how it controlls, only with what you see on screen and I doubt there are people besides you that were really botherd by not having 1:1 sword movements. And what about it being uncanny valley? than what do you think of normal controlls? isnt pushing a button even less realistic than swinging your controller even if it isnt 1:1?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Asher, your just making a fool out of yourself desperetly trying to find things wrong and defend them with useless arguments. I mean, c'mon. Zelda TP has a bad controll scheme? If zelda has a bad controll scheme than what is your idea of a good controll scheme? Not having 1:1 sword movements has nothing to do with how it controlls, only with what you see on screen and I doubt there are people besides you that were really botherd by not having 1:1 sword movements. And what about it being uncanny valley? than what do you think of normal controlls? isnt pushing a button even less realistic than swinging your controller even if it isnt 1:1?

Because motion controls badly mapped can be negatively intuitive. If the objective is to get your avatar to swing a sword down and the controller requires you to move it sideways to make that occur, I would call that worse than pushing a button. Even with a 360 controller you'll see people lean in their chairs moving the controller around etc, which does nothing on the 360 but wii improperly placed controls on the wii this can have a negative effect. Having never played the game I can't say that is what he is experiencing but its not hard to make gesture based controls worse than pushing a button if you're not careful.

 

[Asher]

Asher, your just making a fool out of yourself desperetly trying to find things wrong and defend them with useless arguments. I mean, c'mon. Zelda TP has a bad controll scheme? If zelda has a bad controll scheme than what is your idea of a good controll scheme? Not having 1:1 sword movements has nothing to do with how it controlls, only with what you see on screen and I doubt there are people besides you that were really botherd by not having 1:1 sword movements. And what about it being uncanny valley? than what do you think of normal controlls? isnt pushing a button even less realistic than swinging your controller even if it isnt 1:1?

It is not about being realistic.

The thing is, when I use a traditionally controller I'm not expecting that if I swing it, the character behaves naturally on the screen. But if I use the Wiimote, if I swing it, why doesn't it swing like that on the screen? If I swing the control 180 degrees, why does it not swing 180 degrees on the screen?

This is why it's similar to the uncanny valley. It's introducing a control paradigm that is to emulate real-life actions, yet the actions on the screen do not follow from the actions you are performing. In the attempt to make it more realistic, it has made it "almost but not quite", which is more frustrating than a control scheme which does not attempt to be realistic.

I'm frustrated with gesture-based Wii games, like Zelda: TP. I find them frustrating, just like I find mouse gestures in browsing to be frustrated. With a mouse or a control pad, I can have 100% accuracy in what I want to do (press a button, move the stick precisely). With gesture-based movements, I have sub-100% accuracy -- and any inaccuracy is immensely frustrating to me.

Perhaps you don't have a problem with this. That's fine, it's probably personal preference. I just don't like things half-assed, and in my estimation, every Wii control scheme I've encountered thus far has been half-assed. Gesture based controls for games are fun for silly mini games, but I've not enjoyed them as part of deeper games that require more precision.

 

[Scott_Arm]

It is not about being realistic.

The thing is, when I use a traditionally controller I'm not expecting that if I swing it, the character behaves naturally on the screen. But if I use the Wiimote, if I swing it, why doesn't it swing like that on the screen? If I swing the control 180 degrees, why does it not swing 180 degrees on the screen?

This is why it's similar to the uncanny valley. It's introducing a control paradigm that is to emulate real-life actions, yet the actions on the screen do not follow from the actions you are performing. In the attempt to make it more realistic, it has made it "almost but not quite", which is more frustrating than a control scheme which does not attempt to be realistic.

I'm frustrated with gesture-based Wii games, like Zelda: TP. I find them frustrating, just like I find mouse gestures in browsing to be frustrated. With a mouse or a control pad, I can have 100% accuracy in what I want to do (press a button, move the stick precisely). With gesture-based movements, I have sub-100% accuracy -- and any inaccuracy is immensely frustrating to me.

Perhaps you don't have a problem with this. That's fine, it's probably personal preference. I just don't like things half-assed, and in my estimation, every Wii control scheme I've encountered thus far has been half-assed. Gesture based controls for games are fun for silly mini games, but I've not enjoyed them as part of deeper games that require more precision.

But with a standard gamepad you have 100% accuracy (but not really) with a more limited experience. A standard gamepad is not able to do some of the things the wiimote can do, even though the wiimote cannot track full 3D movement with 100% accuracy. The standard gamepad is more well suited to some games, as the wiimote is to others. It's the same with the mouse and keyboard. Everyone loves to tote the amazing abilities of the mouse and keyboard for RTS, RPG and FPS games, but they SUCK for sports, racing, and arcade mashers. Gamepads are vastly inferior for RTS games, not as good for FPS games, but obviously better for driving, sports and mashers. I think the Wiimote strikes a good balance between the two, and adds a little bit of extra 3D positioning that the other two cannot do.

The pointer functionality is really useful for a lot of genres, and I think it's pretty hard to argue against that. And for those that complain about the jittery pointer, they just need to play RE4. If you start with the regular pistol, your aimer is all kinds of jittery, mostly so you don't shoot with 100% accuracy. If you buy the Red9 pistol and add the stock, the pointer is filtered and moves smooth as ice. It's really good. Sure, the mouse and keyboard is still better for that, but it's not nearly as well suited to as big a variety of games.

The motion control isn't spectacular, but it's decent. So far, I haven't played a game that really made great use of it besides some party games. I don't have a real problem with that though. I think games will get better at it, but even if it's only used in moderation, it's still a welcome addition. The plain old tilt functionality works really well, and I think that'll be used well. It's the motions and 3D positioning that's sometimes off.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

It is not about being realistic.

The thing is, when I use a traditionally controller I'm not expecting that if I swing it, the character behaves naturally on the screen. But if I use the Wiimote, if I swing it, why doesn't it swing like that on the screen? If I swing the control 180 degrees, why does it not swing 180 degrees on the screen?

This is why it's similar to the uncanny valley. It's introducing a control paradigm that is to emulate real-life actions, yet the actions on the screen do not follow from the actions you are performing. In the attempt to make it more realistic, it has made it "almost but not quite", which is more frustrating than a control scheme which does not attempt to be realistic.

I'm frustrated with gesture-based Wii games, like Zelda: TP. I find them frustrating, just like I find mouse gestures in browsing to be frustrated. With a mouse or a control pad, I can have 100% accuracy in what I want to do (press a button, move the stick precisely). With gesture-based movements, I have sub-100% accuracy -- and any inaccuracy is immensely frustrating to me.

Perhaps you don't have a problem with this. That's fine, it's probably personal preference. I just don't like things half-assed, and in my estimation, every Wii control scheme I've encountered thus far has been half-assed. Gesture based controls for games are fun for silly mini games, but I've not enjoyed them as part of deeper games that require more precision.

No offence, but you are just looking for ''flaws'' and going to extremes calling the system flawed.

Take zelda, just about everyone would agree that the wii controlls work great and a fair number would probably preffer it over a traditional controller. Now you come and call it flawed and frustrating. Now that is just wrong to begin with because you call something that works like shit flawed, not something that works fine but doesnt offer pixel perfect gestures, analoge sticks dont offer 100% perfect controll either. Which brings us to the second point and that is that zelda has never been intended to be a 100% perfect sword fight simulator to begin with.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Not aggravating at all, because how could it have 1:1 sword play when you don't have a sword to swing?

In the Cube game, Link most certainly had a sword, not a button under his thumb. My thumb movements and Link's sword movements weren't 1:1. Maybe you would prefer Zelda be controlled with something like the DDR pad, since that would create an even greater disconnect between your actions and the onscreen actions.

Anyway, I believe this is a Metroid 3 thread, not a Zelda thread or a generic Wii hate thread.

 

[Natoma]

Uh oh! Gamespot gave MP3 an 8.5. Oh noes!

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Uh oh! Gamespot gave MP3 an 8.5. Oh noes!

Their forums seem to be on the verge of exploding. NeoGAF also has a large number of posts dedicated towards the review in their offical Metroid Prime 3 Review thread.

I cannot believe how worked up some people get over a simple review, its just so pathetic.

 

[Natoma]

I laugh at it honestly. As if an 8.5 is going to stop people from buying the game, or is in any way a bad score. You'd think Gamespot had killed someone's child.

Shacknews weighs in with a Metroid Prime 3 review: http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=530&page=1

One of the main goals of the opening sequence was doubtless to give players a straightforward stretch of gameplay to learn the controls. Other first person Wii developers, take note: Retro has set the bar, and your games will be judged against this one. On the "Advanced" setting, which most readers of this site are advised to use, movement and aiming with the Wii remote is fluid and natural.

It takes a fair amount of time to use it with great skill, but a basic competency is gained very quickly. Gone is the wild flailing of games such as Red Steel. The controls retain Prime's ability to lock the camera onto an enemy, but also allow the player to point the reticule independently. This inventive optional mechanic bridges old and new, adding a great deal of elegance to the controls without sacrificing the practical convenience of locking on.

and

Nintendo's current TV ad for Metroid Prime 3 is part of its "Wii Would Like to Play" campaign, intended to demonstrate how the system is accessible even to those not well-versed in playing video games.

Do not be fooled.

Except in the most basic sense that an intuitive pointer is used to aim your weapon, Prime 3 is not a particularly accessible game. It is a hardcore game through and through. You will get your ass kicked by bosses. You will be stumped by the sometimes complex, but never overbearing, exploration. At times, you may very well throw your controller through your TV for entirely different reasons than you might when playing Wii Sports.

But you will love it. Your persistence will be rewarded. You will learn to juggle your abilities and skills. You will explore ancient worlds and pirate-infested bases. You will strive to acquire those secrets and raise your completion percentage. If you read Shacknews, this is in all likelihood the Wii game you have been waiting for. You will feel a tinge of regret that this ends the epic, masterful Prime saga, and eagerly await what Retro announces next.

 

[_xxx_]

As I said, I don't like most reviews. I do find GS to be better on average, but they definitely overrate a lot of games based on hype and other factors. All reviewers do.

So ALL reviewrs are wrong and only you are right? Yep, sure

Dude, just let go. You dislike Wii, don't buy it, don't bitch about it, pretend that it doesn't exist and be happy.

 

[Teasy]

I laugh at it honestly. As if an 8.5 is going to stop people from buying the game, or is in any way a bad score. You'd think Gamespot had killed someone's child.

Shacknews weighs in with a Metroid Prime 3 review: http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=530&page=1

and

It is a "great" score based on GameSpots rating system, however its still quite strange IMO. Read the review and it seems the only complaints they could find is that because the controls are so good that makes the game slightly easier as well as not enough inovation in the gameplay compared to MP1/MP2. Other then that everything is extremely positive. Yet this is the same reviewer who gave Resident Evil Wii a 9.1.... That game is basically identical to the game before it (so certainly no inovation there, even the graphics are identical) appart from the new controls which again the reviewer says makes the game a bit easier then the original RE4. So how can that game get a 9.1 and MP3 get 8.5?.. As I said its still a very good score but when you read the review and especially compared to other reviews from the same person it does seem like the score has been low balled to a degree.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Its also strange that there are some things that contradict each other in the review. I believe he says its the best prime yet, still it scores lower than 1 and 2. And there are a bunch of other things like that. Not that I care, a 8.5 is still a very good score. Its as some people think its a bad game because it doesnt score a 9.5 or higher.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Uh oh! Gamespot gave MP3 an 8.5. Oh noes!

At least they didn't dock it for not magically turning the Wii into a PS3. Some people just gotta be different, I guess.

 

[Asher]

Take zelda, just about everyone would agree that the wii controlls work great and a fair number would probably preffer it over a traditional controller. Now you come and call it flawed and frustrating. ... Which brings us to the second point and that is that zelda has never been intended to be a 100% perfect sword fight simulator to begin with.

Humm...take a very close look at those two sentences.

What do you call an idea to shoehorn a control scheme into a game that was not designed for it? In my book, that's a flaw.

I'm not denying many (even most) people may prefer the Wii-mote for Zelda. I did not. I'm also not the only one.

Uh oh! Gamespot gave MP3 an 8.5. Oh noes!

As I said, Gamespot tends to be the more rational reviewer in general...

So ALL reviewrs are wrong and only you are right? Yep, sure

Dude, just let go. You dislike Wii, don't buy it, don't bitch about it, pretend that it doesn't exist and be happy.

No, not all reviews are wrong. Games are subjective, of course almost all reviewers are somehow "wrong" relative to my opinions. The only reviewer that really matters to me, is me.

And as for your second comment...I already bought the Wii. Pretending it doesn't exist does not make me happy when I already did buy it and spend money on it (additional Wiimotes, SD cards, software).

Its also strange that there are some things that contradict each other in the review. I believe he says its the best prime yet, still it scores lower than 1 and 2.

Why is this strange? Scores are always relative to other games out at the time. The "bar" is always raised as new, excellent games come out. What was a 9.0/10 4 years ago is likely less so now, because we've seen better. Plus, MP1 and MP2 were, IMO, overrated...and in hindsight it's much easier to see such things. This may be the best Prime ever, but its score does not directly correspond MP1 or MP2. It corresponds to today's games.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Humm...take a very close look at those two sentences.

What do you call an idea to shoehorn a control scheme into a game that was not designed for it? In my book, that's a flaw.

Thats not a flaw. A flaw is when you build a airplane and it doesnt fly. Thats a flaw. ''Shoehorning'' a control scheme that most people find just as good, or better as the ''old'' one isnt a flaw. Its not using it to the fullest at best, but that isnt flawed.

That you dont like it, fine, thats your opinion. But say it doesnt work right because you dont like it that are 2 different things.

Why is this strange? Scores are always relative to other games out at the time. The "bar" is always raised as new, excellent games come out. What was a 9.0/10 4 years ago is likely less so now, because we've seen better. Plus, MP1 and MP2 were, IMO, overrated...and in hindsight it's much easier to see such things. This may be the best Prime ever, but its score does not directly correspond MP1 or MP2. It corresponds to today's games.

Oke, reviews also said the controlls are better than any other dual stick fps game, and not just by a little, but alot. The game is full of action, they removed the ''bad'' things from mp1/2 like the backtracking, the game can graphically hold its own to any other game out there even on x360 and ps3 because of the artstyle. Some review, I believe gametrailers also said its one of the best game experiances out there.

To me it sounds like its not only better than the old metroids, but its also on pair with todays AAA games too. So giving it a lower score doesnt make sense because its better than the old, but also better/on par with todays games.