Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

[archangelmorph]

archangelmorph,

I think it's pretty clear that there was an incremental increase in quality from MP1 to MP2, and a HUGE increase from MP2 to MP3.

It is quite clear that MP3 is next-gen while MP2 was GC. And consider that MP2 is considered to have pushed the GC to its limits, and I think it's quite obvious that

The only things that are "quite clear"to me are:-

- MP2 looks alot cleaner than MP1 with better textures, more geometry and better art..

- MP3 looks like MP2 but with AA and bloom.. And better art..

If you call the last three additions "a HUGE improvement" or the definition of "next gen" then hey! more power to you man..

 

[CEO]

OMG. The Screens are unbelievable. The Art(Style), + Interaction with the Wiimote. Cant wait. I am playing MP2 right now, and Hunters on DS. The DS one is amazing. If the control sheme is as precise as it is on DS im quitting my job. Just to play this...

SRSLY Metroid Prime is the most underrated series out there.

The only things that are "quite clear"to me are:-

- MP2 looks alot cleaner than MP1 with better textures, more geometry and better art..

- MP3 looks like MP2 but with AA and bloom.. And better art..

If you call the last three additions "a HUGE improvement" or the definition of "next gen" then hey! more power to you man..

Oh please... MP3 has the "sharper" textures, the higher Polycount, the better lighting, Wiimote. oh and next gen is misplaced here. its not next gen its new gen.
whats about that ps2 comparison anyway? ps2 couldn't do MP2.

 

[Natoma]

On what I can see?

Besides the bloom (which PS2 has done before in a wide variety of games such as ICO, SOTC, Athur and the invisibles etc..) the list of rendering techniques visible aren't anywhere particularly far from what could be achieved via directX 8.0's fixed function pipeline even..

You only have to look at games like God of War to see that this game is "graphically" on par (or only marginally better at best)..

I don't know why so many of you are disputing this idea?

Let's not get all crazy now. GOWII was a gorgeous game for PS2, but let's be realistic. It was definitely a last gen game.

 

[Natoma]

The only things that are "quite clear"to me are:-

- MP2 looks alot cleaner than MP1 with better textures, more geometry and better art..

- MP3 looks like MP2 but with AA and bloom.. And better art..

If you call the last three additions "a HUGE improvement" or the definition of "next gen" then hey! more power to you man..

Is it Halo 2 to Halo 3 jump? Nope.

But could MP3 be done on GC with the visual clarity and quality it has? No. And last I checked, the GC was much more powerful than the PS2.

But now, MP3 could be done on the PS2 and be "graphically on par."

You're nuts.

 

[archangelmorph]

Is it Halo 2 to Halo 3 jump? Nope.

But could MP3 be done on GC with the visual clarity and quality it has? No. And last I checked, the GC was much more powerful than the PS2.

But now, MP3 could be done on the PS2 and be "graphically on par."

You're nuts.

Did you develop any of thee games?

Do you know exactly how far any of these titles ACTUALLY pushed the hardware of any of the platforms in question?

I call what I see and from the perspective of someone who's spent the better part of my career so far developing PS2 software i'm pretty sure there's nothing here that isn't possible on the hardware..

And if those screens of GOWII aren't close if not on par with the metroid prime screens posted here then I'm sorry but I think many of you need to learn the visual difference between art and [technical] effects..

Geez..

 

[Natoma]

Did you develop any of thee games?

Did you? Since you didn't, perhaps you should refrain from asking silly irrelevant questions?

Do you know exactly how far any of these titles ACTUALLY pushed the hardware of any of the platforms in question?

Actually yes, yes I do. Retro stated that they pushed the GC as hard as they could with MP2. And they've also stated in recent interviews that MP3 would be impossible on the GC.

I call what I see and from the perspective of someone who's spent the better part of my career so far developing PS2 software i'm pretty sure there's nothing here that isn't possible on the hardware..

And if those screens of GOWII aren't close if not on par with the metroid prime screens posted here then I'm sorry but I think many of you need to learn the visual difference between art and [technical] effects..

Geez..

Indeed. Gears of War is definitely possible on the Wii. It's just art and technical differences that make up the bulk of the quality differences.

 

[archangelmorph]

Did you? Since you didn't, perhaps you should refrain from asking silly irrelevant questions?

What questions did i ask? I made statements.. If you disagree then thats your problem

Actually yes, yes I do. Retro stated that they pushed the GC as hard as they could with MP2. And they've also stated in recent interviews that MP3 would be impossible on the GC.

And your going to take their word for it?

Indeed. Gears of War is definitely possible on the Wii. It's just art and technical differences that make up the bulk of the quality differences.

Was it I who even mentioned the whole GOW crap??

Are you reading any of my posts or making up an idea of what i'm saying as you go along?

 

[Natoma]

What questions did i ask? I made statements.. If you disagree then thats your problem

You asked:

Did you develop any of thee games?

And I responded to that quite decisively. Did you develop any of the games? If not, then you're asking irrelevant questions.

And your going to take their word for it?

If not their's, whose word am I supposed to take then? They are after all the people that developed the games and spent their development time in the GC environment. And that seems to be what you were asking me when you asked if I developed any of the games in question.

Retro Studios did, and they said it quite plainly that MP2 pushed the GC as hard as they could, and MP3 would be impossible on the GC graphically.

Was it I who even mentioned the whole GOW crap??

Are you reading any of my posts or making up an idea of what i'm saying as you go along?

It's called sarcasm archangelmorph. Taking your comments and drawing a parallel that is equally absurd as the one you're trying to draw with God of War and it being "graphically on par" with MP3, or the PS2 being able to create graphics on par with MP3.

You're nuts if you hold to that assertion.

 

[archangelmorph]

I call what I see

If you have a problem with this Natoma then thats your perogative..

so far i've stated that fro the screens presented the game doesn't look far above what the PS2 is capable of..

sure the Wii could be capable of MUCH more and the game may very well look better than those screens or improved vastly before it sees release but from what i can see form these screens here the game doesn't look all that amazing..

I really don't know why your attacking my oppinion as if i've "blasphemed against your most Holy relic"..

Seriously there seems to be a common theme when ever someone speaks out something even remotely un-flattering against either a nintendo console or a nintendo game..

C'mon grow up guys..

 

[Natoma]

so far i've stated that fro the screens presented the game doesn't look far above what the PS2 is capable of..

And I disagree, and have posted screens and discussed the opinions of the main developer of the prior two games, plus used the fact that the GC was a far more powerful machine than the PS2 to back up my assertions.

You've merely presented opinion.

sure the Wii could be capable of MUCH more and the game may very well look better than those screens or improved vastly before it sees release but from what i can see form these screens here the game doesn't look all that amazing..

I really don't know why your attacking my oppinion as if i've "blasphemed against your most Holy relic"..

I'm not attacking your opinion. I've used everything within my power to show that your opinion is simply incorrect.

Seriously there seems to be a common theme when ever someone speaks out something even remotely un-flattering against either a nintendo console or a nintendo game..

C'mon grow up guys..

Err, when the first batch of MP3 screens were posted earlier in this thread, I was one of the first to say that it I was pretty disappointed in them. They didn't look any better than a Gamecube game and that the controls would have to be absurdly good in order to make up for that fact.

This latest batch is an ENORMOUS improvement over the first set.

Now, you made some snarky assertions such as "did you develop the games?", to which I responded with my own response of "did you?". I also then responded with the opinion of Retro Studios, who DID in fact develop the game.

And then after that you had the gall to ask me if I took their word for it.

Those crazy comments are what is the issue here. That's what I've had some fun with over the last few posts more than anything else.

 

[archangelmorph]

Now, you made some snarky assertions such as "did you develop the games?", to which I responded with my own response of "did you?". I also then responded with the opinion of Retro Studios, who DID in fact develop the game.

And then after that you had the gall to ask me if I took their word for it.

Those crazy comments are what is the issue here. That's what I've had some fun with over the last few posts more than anything else.

Glad I entertained you

Well i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.. but as far as I can tell from a technical standpoint you have done anything in terms of expressing with reference to any particularly technical point, why this game (from the screens) couldn't have been done as I stated..

I don't expect you to either.. but if you can then I'll be pleasantly suprised..

 

[Natoma]

Glad I entertained you

Well i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.. but as far as I can tell from a technical standpoint you have done anything in terms of expressing with reference to any particularly technical point, why this game (from the screens) couldn't have been done as I stated..

I don't expect you to either.. but if you can then I'll be pleasantly suprised..

I did mention that.

Polycounts, texture quantity/quality/variety, lighting......

Add AA and Bloom to that as well. And of course the opinion of Retro Studios that MP3 just can't be done graphically on the GC.

 

[archangelmorph]

Add AA and Bloom to that as well. And of course the opinion of Retro Studios that MP3 just can't be done graphically on the GC.

Well i'm not gonig to go over some of my earlier responses to these since then we'd be going around in circles..

Anyways I concede, the game looks nice.. Not amazing or a considerable leap over MP2 (IMO.. I repeat.. IMO) but better nonetheless..

I guess that's a testament to the GC's abilities over the Wii's constraints though..

Still when you can get the visual difference between Halo1 and Halo 2 from the same hardware then it speaks volumes of what can be achieved when given a new set of processors to play with..

Maybe next (pr/t)ime eh? :smile:

 

[Teasy]

On what I can see?

Besides the bloom (which PS2 has done before in a wide variety of games such as ICO, SOTC, Athur and the invisibles etc..) the list of rendering techniques visible aren't anywhere particularly far from what could be achieved via directX 8.0's fixed function pipeline even..

You only have to look at games like God of War to see that this game is "graphically" on par (or only marginally better at best)..

I don't know why so many of you are disputing this idea?

Don´t only look at the screens and compare bits here and there with different PS2 games, look at the whole picture. For instance its all very well doing bloom in Arthur and the invisibles, or even ICO or SOTC. But its an entirely different story doing these kind of effects in a game like MP3 which has far higher polygon counts, far better textures and better overall effects then those games.

Also think about it this way. The devs at Retro did there best on GC with MP2 and it does not have the texture quality, polygon count or lighting effects MP3 has. So if GC couldn´t do this game with that level of textures, poly counts and lighting effects then PS2 most certainly couldn´t... I mean for a start how do you think PS2 is going to fit 88MB of data into its 32MB of memory and make it look identical texture wise? Especially when GC already had better texturing capabilities then PS2 with only 24MB of memory...

 

[Teasy]

I call what I see and from the perspective of someone who's spent the better part of my career so far developing PS2 software i'm pretty sure there's nothing here that isn't possible on the hardware..

I´m sure none of the effects are impossible on PS2. I´m also pretty sure that a developer could put MP3, with about a quarter of the texture quality, nearly half the polygon count and a medium reduction in lighting effects on PS2, but I certainly don´t think that would be near identical do you?

 

[aselto]

I've never played Metroid Prime (I only played Metroids on GBA and SNES), but these new screenshots look absolutely fantastic and much better than anything on my PS2. It's nice to see a Wii game with fantastic graphics.

 

[archangelmorph]

I´m sure none of the effects are impossible on PS2. I´m also pretty sure that a developer could put MP3, with about a quarter of the texture quality, nearly half the polygon count and a medium reduction in lighting effects on PS2, but I certainly don´t think that would be near identical do you?

Your sure are you?

Oh well... Believe what you like..

/This discussion ended y'day by the way..

 

[Neb]

I´m sure none of the effects are impossible on PS2. I´m also pretty sure that a developer could put MP3, with about a quarter of the texture quality, nearly half the polygon count and a medium reduction in lighting effects on PS2, but I certainly don´t think that would be near identical do you?

I agree, they would certainly have to cut down on some things if it where to be done on the PS2. No it would be more interesting to know how xbox would handle it if MP3 where to be done on it since xbox is much more powerful technically and the graphics IQ is far better in games than the PS2 (ignore artwork). But that is for another discussion!

 

[fearsomepirate]

I'm not sure how you could make a PS2 game with as many 24-bit textures as at high a resolution in Prime 3. 4-bit textures don't look as good as 24-bit, so "use 4-bit instead" isn't a good answer. I mean this is silly; all you have to do is texture a scene with 4 MB of 24-bit textures (666 KB on Gamecube) and put an additional 333KB worth of effects layers on each one (gloss map, detail map, specular, decals, etc), and you're already doing an effect the PS2 can't do. And from my experience playing games, lots of polygons, lots of moving point light sources, and lots of texture effects appear to be mutually exclusive on the PS2, including in God of War 2. Prime 2 plays entirely to the Cube's strengths.

It may be premature to tell from the screens, but I think Prime 3 has overall better lighting than Prime 2. It's not just bloom. Prime 2's lighting was flatter. I guess I won't be able to tell until I play it. I must say, I do find it amusing how Wii games have gone from showing us what Gamecube could really have done all along to showing us what PS2 could really have done all along.

 

[archangelmorph]

It may be premature to tell from the screens, but I think Prime 3 has overall better lighting than Prime 2. It's not just bloom. Prime 2's lighting was flatter. I guess I won't be able to tell until I play it. I must say, I do find it amusing how Wii games have gone from showing us what Gamecube could really have done all along to showing us what PS2 could really have done all along.

*Yawn*

I don't know why people are still sweating on this..?

I also don't know why people can't understand the fact that I made an inference based ON THESE SCREENS and nothing more..

For all I know the actual game could (and probably will) look miles better..