HL2 40% faster on X800 compared to NV40?

DemoCoder said:
I agree the source code theft is not the major reason behind the delay, but I highly doubt NVidia could pay Valve enough to justify the delay.

I'm separating the benchmark here from the game. In the event the source-code theft was not a contrivance, it could certainly have delayed the game somewhat, but not the benchmark. And, I wasn't speaking of Valve being paid, I was speaking of Newell, personally, being paid in a manner invisible to his co-workers, his publisher, and possibly others. I assume that Newell has a private life as well as a professional one, and so it is certainly possible any such arrangements could have been made privately. I say all of this hypothetically because much of the information surrounding the original release date of the game, the benchmark, and the purported theft, came directly, and personally, from Newell himself in every case I can recall.

The interesting thing for me is that the stories about the release date coming from Valve's publisher, Vivendi, and coming from Newell personally as a representative of Valve, differed at times, with Vivendi stipulating finally that (paraphrased) "Newell knows best when the software is going to be released as he represents Valve, the developer," and thus deferring to Valve (Newell, actually) in the matter of Newell's assertion that HL2 was still on for a 9/03 ship date. But as we all can see, Vivendi's original comments as to an '04 ship date were actually correct.

So, why did Newell, personally, think it necessary to contradict Vivendi's statement that the 09/03 shipdate would not be met, considering that it was not met? If we are to assume that as an employee of Valve, Newell would have known the game could not have shipped by 9/03, then it follows there was some personal agenda of Newell's at work behind the scenes about which Newell has never commented, much less explained publicly. This brings us to a couple of possibilities:

1) Newell is an idiot, and simply had no clue as to when the game might ship, but "thought" it would ship on time (Heh...;) Really, can't rule that one out just yet, and simply being a dunce is not a crime that I'm aware of.)

2)Newell was insisting on meeting the 9/03 ship date for some personal agenda of his own, which to him was compelling enough to cause him to publicly misrepresent the facts as he knew them, and as Vivendi knew them to be, with regard to when the game might ship. Such an agenda could run the gamut from ego, to receiving money from sources to which he had personally pledged a 9/03 ship date, etc. The fact is that long before Newell publicized the source-code theft account, Vivendi had already publicly stated the game would not ship until '04 (which Newell immediately refuted, and which Vivendi so retracted.) This indicates to me that whatever Newell's agenda was at that time, it was an agenda of which Vivendi was unaware, which reinforces the idea that Newell was acting independently in these events.

My thinking is that Newell spent the time between his contradiction of Vivendi's '04 HL2 ship-date statement, and the time he announced the source-code theft, in thinking up a plausible reason by which he could delay the game, but absolve himself personally of the consequences (public or private) for that delay at the same time. The source-code theft story fits the bill in that regard, imo.

The irony is that had Newell released the benchmark as he announced it would be released, then I would have believed the source-code theft account...;) But since he did not release the benchmark, which should not have been affected by theft of the source code relative to the game itself, this immediately raised a large red flag to me as to the veracity of the entire story.

Really, I have no idea what actually transpired, and can only say that it certainly appears that the facts have yet to be disclosed publicly. Privately, I have no idea who might be aware of what actually happened, but suspect that some entities apart from Newell do indeed actually know very well what happened, and that the facts differ materially from Newell's public account.

This is a complex issue, and the interests of many parties were affected in sometimes very different ways by Valve's failure to ship the game as scheduled, so there is no telling as to how many parties might've assisted Newell in contriving the source-code theft story. Or, it could have been all Newell's doing for a variety of possible reasons. Just can't say at this point. For me, though, the "missing benchmark" caused the whole scheme, whatever it was designed to cover, and whomever was responsible for it, to unravel, imo.

(Sleuthing cap removed, pipe extinguished...;))
 
Has he ever blamed the delay on the source code theft?

I don't believe he could even if he wanted to as the hacker threatened to release even more source code if Valve did not come fourth and claim the game was just not finished yet. It seems to me Valve had no choice but to claim the game was just not finished, even if it really was. The benchmark could not be released as it would provide the missing modules/textures/maps/etc and could be used to help complete (maybe partially) the game from the leaked source code. Also, the benchmark would not be representative of the final code had he needed to rewrite the code due to the theft.
I personally believe he would not claim the theft had anything to do with the delay simply because doing so would damage the game itself. How many people would want to license the HL2 engine had Valve admitted the game engine had been compromised? How many people would be willing to enter their personal information into Steam had Valve admitted the source code theft was really a big deal?
 
ChrisW said:
Has he ever blamed the delay on the source code theft?

No. But they didn't give any reasons for the delay after the code theft. Until recently which is what, 7 months after ?

And a lot of people was of the opinion that the code theft was what was causing the delay, some didn't buy that. And now we know who was right.
 
Well, perhaps it's some habit i've got when working, but for me it's pretty clear, considering the place of the coma. At least, i'll give you the benefit of doubt. And then, i think you shouldn't be so affirmative ;)
Althornin said:
Evildeus said:
Althornin said:
um, they are talking about compared to the 6800.................so i'd say you are wrong?
No he is not, he is talking of the 9800XT.
no, he is not.
re-read the quote.
At the very least, admit the ambiguity of the quote.
 
jvd said:
DemoCoder said:
I thought forcing the NV3x and NV40 to R300 device id removed the IQ artifacts?
wyea it also reduced performance alot . So people are saying therei s a problem making it run on the r300 path or something
That's not true. Reviewers have tested and didn't find any differencies.
 
Let say one site tested and found differences (DH ?) and the other site tested and told you they found no difference (Hardware.fr ? ). Does not make a no difference as result :)
 
PatrickL said:
Let say one site tested and found differences (DH ?) and the other site tested and told you they found no difference (Hardware.fr ? ). Does not make a no difference as result :)
Well at least i would say that HFR knows what they are talking about contrary to another site ;)
 
Evildeus said:
PatrickL said:
Let say one site tested and found differences (DH ?) and the other site tested and told you they found no difference (Hardware.fr ? ). Does not make a no difference as result :)
Well at least i would say that HFR knows what they are talking about contrary to another site ;)

how about fartcry then . That shows the same trend as dh .
 
Evildeus said:
jvd said:
Evildeus said:
how about fartcry then . That shows the same trend as dh .
Well, i don't know, and it seems that DB hasn't commented on the issue also :? I wonder why?
The only thing they said is:
Ne vous excitez pas trop vite il y a peut-être une explication logique en fait...

Je pense que chip.de n'a pas faitr attention à tous les détails.
http://forum.hardware.fr/hardwarefr/Hardware/sujet-570655-320.htm

well i guess we have to wait till june to find out .

btw what the hell did they say.
 
Well, till Tridam doesn't give more specific answers i can's say more :/ But i sure do believe that he has enough technical background, knowledge (and hopefully the card :D) to explicit what he means.

PS: He says that there 's a logical explanation and that chip.de didn't take into account all the details.
 
They just said to not got to fast (about the cheat) they may have an explanation and that Chips.de may have missed a detail.

Evildeus has a tendancy to remove all the "may" "could be" and so on when he translates :p
 
Scarlet said:
As far as JC goes, I think he sees himself in much the same light as Gabe. I think he likes the extra wizzies nV habitually puts into its products (no matter how useless they are), and he exploits them (because after all he is an engineer). I bet he is glad to take those top-line dollars from nV, but I would be doubtful the dollars themselves motivate him to use those extra nV features. I think he does it because he likes them.

IMO, take their words as their view of reality and discount the effect that TWIMTBP dollars or bundling dollars have on what they say (however, if you really want to piss them off, accuse them of being "bought").

First I agree that is why jc likes NV.

Second does anyone have any info suggesting what amount if any nv paid id? I thought that the only payment was to activision the publisher and not to id.
 
Blastman said:
I don?t know, Jack Squat is pretty unreliable. I?d take Gabe?s word over him any day of the week. :D
Actually, on balance, I think I'd trust Jack over Gabe... :D
 
jvd said:
how about fartcry then . That shows the same trend as dh .

3Dcenter.de wrote yesterday that, according to NVidia, the 61.11 drivers work around a z-culling bug in FarCry. That would make it an application specific fix and not neccessarily cheating and they wonder why chip.de didn't do the obvious thing and check for differences in image quality...
 
L233 said:
jvd said:
how about fartcry then . That shows the same trend as dh .

3Dcenter.de wrote yesterday that, according to NVidia, the 61.11 drivers work around a z-culling bug in FarCry. That would make it an application specific fix and not neccessarily cheating and they wonder why chip.de didn't do the obvious thing and check for differences in image quality...

hahaha thanks the the laugh.

Has nvidia looked at the image quality with the newest farcry patch ?
 
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