Halo 3 Beta: May 16th - June 7th

[NovemberMike]

I was under the impression that Bungie basically said "There will be no DoF, Motion Blur or Heavy HDR in the multiplayer because those things are distracting and take away from the experience" but that the singleplayer would have many of those things added in...

 

[aselto]

It's weird. There was dynamic light exposure in the leaked Zanzibar footage.

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

HDR isn't about bloom. It's about proper lighting no matter the environment. When outside in the sun, we see correct exposure. The moment the player moves into the shade of the interior parts, brightness ought to scale upwards to match the human (or camera) iris opening to let in more light. In this beta, the brightness is fixed rendering indoor areas just plain dark.

Shifty, you should watch more or something. There's HDR (without excessive bloom, but also without excessively dark areas as well--it's MP, Shifty), and there's tonemapping. Seriously, watch more or something. It's there.

We have in the technical forum a thread on Halo 3's supposed GI solution, and it's a shame we haven't seen anything of the sort yet. At the moment the graphics engine is definitely last-gen tech.

IIRC, it was never called a GI solution. The word Global was used, but never "global illumination."

Gamespot's description from E3 when Bungie was talking about their engine:

We next met with Marcus Lehto, Bungie's art director, who filled us in on the technology as he gave us a fly through of the locations in the trailer. The crater seen in the trailer is three miles across, and it's all rendered in real geometry. Halo 3 has a new global lighting system that now lights everything uniquely from the same source, which explains just how that setting sun looked that good as it illuminated everything in the trailer. Halo 2, on the other hand, used a lighting system that lit everything separately. Meanwhile, parallax mapping is able to give depth to structures in the distance, such as the clouds above the crater. A new particle system offers different levels of light diffusion to take the quality of the atmosphere into account, and that makes for different layers of light.

The demo shifted away from the crater to the part of the level you see the Master Chief walking in from. He was controllable, which means that the trailer indicates just how good the game will look. Lehto was able to zoom in on the Master Chief with the camera, and you could see the many different ways light reflected objects onto him. For example, you could see light reflect off the ground and onto his armor. A new materials system shows the difference between his armor and the rubber undersuit. It's so detailed that if you bring the camera close to the Master Chief's visor, you see everything in front of him reflected in it, right down to the ammo counter in his rifle.

Read through the **** in the first paragraph, and their terms seem screwed up, but their description more closely resembles a unified lighting system.

Translation of another one:

Beyond the trailer, we could see how the Halo 3 graphics engine ran in a very preliminar version in which there is still missing functionality. If someone doubted the video was in real-time, stop doing so. Right after concluding the trailer, the camera returns back to the scene, where the Master Chief can be seen from afar.

Then, one of the programmers from Bungie took control of the 360 and started to explore the scenery, filled without a doubt from the remains of a combat. The first thing we saw was the climatological effects, from which in this demo, the volumetric fog stands out with movement, rays, and full dust particle effects that leave behind the steps of the protagonist.

The camera then closed in on Master Chief. His modelling has suffered a spectacular change. The sensation is that of having before you a rendered figure (note: i suppose they mean CG render,) but totally in real time. The texture definition is surprising, in which the Halo 2 texture popping defects have been completely eliminated.

A detail that shows of the 'mimo' (note: not sure what this means) that has been put into the protagonist is his visor. It has been recreated just how it should be in reality, with real time reflections. In it we can see any scenery element reflected in rigurous real time. In the demonstration we saw how the Chief shot to the ground with the assault rifle, and how in the crystal (note: referring to the visor) the shots could be appreciated, its flashes and even the detail of its telescopic scope. Something impressive.

The jewel of this demo was without a doubt, the real time lighting system, in which by means of complex computations that analyze the light vector in every corner of the scene and return a value that is applied to every surface that is exposed to light, give an exact and real lumination of what should be each material exposed to a certain degree of lumination.

To finish there was a round of questions. In it, the implicated said they were not going to talk nothing beyond what was shown in the demo, understandable to avoid revealing before time any important detail. Even then we tried yanking (note: yes, this is the word ) some information related with the argument (note: i think they mean the story,) which seems that it will be related with the more human side of the Master Chief and with Cortana, but beyond this there was no luck.

Take all of the above into account, look at what they did for "PRT" for Halo 2, and it seems more like Irradiance volumes.

 

[warb]

HDR isn't about bloom. It's about proper lighting no matter the environment. When outside in the sun, we see correct exposure. The moment the player moves into the shade of the interior parts, brightness ought to scale upwards to match the human (or camera) iris opening to let in more light. In this beta, the brightness is fixed rendering indoor areas just plain dark.

I know, but HDR without excessive bloom and dark might not be as obvious to some people. See ~1:30 in this video for what is clearly HDR lighting: http://www.xboxyde.com/stream_3811_en.html

 

[Tap In]

shifty...

Quote:
Stinkles (Bungie)

the entire game uses HDR then.

It's toned down in MP for gameplay reasons. Coming out of a dark cave into blinding sunshine = ownage. Nobody wants a simulation of real life. Half of us would have a heart attack running up from that beach.

this is Multiplayer Halo which needs to balance speed, physics, art, map design, weapon balancing and netcode to play at its best meaning that graphics fill a role but not as big as the others. lean and mean (and balance) is what makes Halo MP the king of gameplay. by all accounts of people actually playing it on HDTVs, the scope, speed, smoothness, lighting, textures, explosions, physics, rag doll and particle effects all combine to present a great visual feast.

the Single Player game will look different (more of the effects you see in other single player graphical powerhouses)... nobody has seen SP yet.

you need to look at this as if they are building 2 games in one.

 

[Falkster]

Thanks everyone for all the impressions and videos, this has turned into an awesome thread!

One question, and sorry in advance if this has already been discussed, but I've read that the demo is using Halo 2 assets in order to reduce the size of the demo, is this true? I'm hesitant to believe it for a number of reasons; though, it would explain the similarity in graphics to halo 2. Regardless, the gameplay looks incredibly fun!

//huge halo fan

 

[Laa-Yosh]

HDR isn't about bloom. It's about proper lighting no matter the environment. When outside in the sun, we see correct exposure. The moment the player moves into the shade of the interior parts, brightness ought to scale upwards to match the human (or camera) iris opening to let in more light. In this beta, the brightness is fixed rendering indoor areas just plain dark.

We have in the technical forum a thread on Halo 3's supposed GI solution, and it's a shame we haven't seen anything of the sort yet. At the moment the graphics engine is definitely last-gen tech.

There's some exposure adjustment in the movies, and in general the use of HDR is quite evident IMHO.

Also, the lighting engine seems to be based on a spehre/cube enviroment map that's probably HDR too, and may even change throughout the map. Look at the shots of the characters in shadow, there's some very nice soft lighting going on.
This was also evident in the Brutes video where gray untextured models were clearly lit by more than simple point lights.

You could call this a kind of GI (although it'd be wrong IMHO), as in illuminating every object in the map using the same method. Also, the same HDR image can be used as reflection maps for MC's visor, metallic surfaces and so on.

 

[Tap In]

Thanks everyone for all the impressions and videos, this has turned into an awesome thread!

One question, and sorry in advance if this has already been discussed, but I've read that the demo is using Halo 2 assets in order to reduce the size of the demo, is this true? ...

umm no

nice shot

nice new vid from blim (shows some good lighting examples)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

this is Multiplayer Halo which needs to balance speed, physics, art, map design, weapon balancing and netcode to play at its best meaning that graphics fill a role but not as big as the others....you need to look at this as if they are building 2 games in one.

Sure, I get that. I was just saying it doesn't look great. It may not look great for a very good reason, but it still doesn't look great It's people saying the lighting looks great that are perplexing me.

As for HDR, which vids is it shown in? I've got the 200 Mb BlimBlim version here. It starts (after the blue environment intro) in a black room looking out into the orange hillside. There's no exposure adjusment there that I can see. The player jumps on a quad and rides inot the water. Where it passes into shadow, the whole vehicle and rider seem to fade into darkness and back into light rather than having a shadow with boundary cast over it. There's no point where the front is lit and the rear is shadowed. At 1.21 the player stands still a few seconds in an interior. Looks like it might be brightening up a bit in there slowly, but if it is, it's a small amount (might be my monitor rendering it darkly?).

Again, I can appreciate that this could all be for gameplay reasons. But that doesn't make the lighting great because of context. Otherwise flat shaded Tetris blocks could be said to have great lighting, because flat shading is warranted for the gameplay style!

 

[AlNom]

Perusing this thread, I don't see why anyone's impressed with the lighting in this Beta version - it's definitely weak. *snip*

...I'm surprised people aren't more critical as they have been with other games that have shown major differences from trailers. At least say 'the lighting isn't great but it may well improve by final release' rather than 'the lighting's fantastic!'

*cough* I was talking about the gif , tongue-in-cheek kinda thing.

 

[Tap In]

More first hand impressions

It's also important to see it in motion. There's a huge number of effects going on at once. Just in the explosion department you've got different explosions for vehicles, three grenades, rocket launcher, fusion cores and needlers going on at any moment, plus the large number of different weapon effects. Stuff like the water needs to be seen in motion. There's so much going on at any given moment that screens don't to it justice. And those screens look good.

 

[<nu>faust]

...I'm surprised people aren't more critical as they have been with other games that have shown major differences from trailers. At least say 'the lighting isn't great but it may well improve by final release' rather than 'the lighting's fantastic!'

well that's what happens when you take things out of their context . most halo fans on the net are aware of the fact that bungie has repeatedly said "everything we show you is in progress, the purpose of this beta is to solidify the basic gameplay mechanics and gather valuable data for balancing (especially for the multiplayer game), everything you see in beta is subject to change, please don't take this as what we can do best at the moment or what's we are planning to achive with halo 3, the game is not out for at least another 5-6 months".

 

[Tap In]

1UP:
Previews: Halo 3

The weekend's over -- our final thoughts on the Beta.

The Halo 3 Beta is an excellent, surprisingly polished look at what we'll be playing this fall. Bungie has said it is but the "core" of the multiplayer experience, so we shudder with delight that the game may actually be noticeably better than it is right now. Halo 3 likely won't change the minds of those who have never gotten into the series, but for those who enjoyed the multiplayer of either of the first two games, it's an awesomely-tuned, expertly balanced evolution of an already near-perfect experience, with enough additions and tweaks to things that weren't quite working before to make everything feel shiny and new.

We've been playing all weekend, and have already experienced dozens of amazing "Halo moments" -- last second kills and saves, unlikely fusion core explosions or grenade tosses, outlandish snipes, and all sorts of other Halo 'sandbox' magic. It's as astonishingly fun and addictive as ever, and the improved matchmaking and party system is yet again the best way to run a multiplayer experience anywhere in gaming -- by a landslide.

The visuals arguably have room for improvement (and could use anti-aliasing to smooth the jagged edges that appear on some larger TVs), but the game could ship tomorrow and it's unlikely any Halo fan would have many issues; it's a very pretty game, with some truly gorgeous moments when the lighting, weapon and particle effects, and player models shine. It also runs incredibly smoothly, which is an amazing feat when you think about exactly what's going on for eight people simultaneously with absolutely precise timing. Bungie has yet again found a way to make the best multiplayer game significantly better, and we couldn't be more excited for the final game to ship this fall.

 

[nintenho]

saw it somewhere, not sure if it's real, funny anyways though.

 

[El Leone]

Having played the beta, I can tell you guys HDR (as we already know) is in the game.. Like usual It's most noticeable when leaving dark rooms and entering out in the open. Specifically in Snowbound when you come out of the dark underground tunnels and the sky turns pretty bright, whats nicer is that actually effects the environment instead of just effecting the lighting and contrast : the snow when you come out of the underground is reflecting the light yet it doesn't effect the more darker condensed rocks . It all subtly fades out.

There are more subtle effects, on Valhalla i for example fixate on a part of the landscape for a few seconds and you turn around, the lighting adapts very slightly. At first I didn't notice as it is really subtle, so I tested it out by just running into the corner of some rocks, as I waited the lighting went very very slightly darker, and when I turned around it readjusted itself. Basically it readjusts to the darkness/shade of the environment and It's all very subtle.

Bet I'll get a response saying "THATS NOT HDR LOL LEONE"

 

[DuckThor Evil]

whoopdidoo!

I just received a copy of Crackdown just in time for the beta. I didn't play Halo 2 MP very much, but I'm quite excited about this, basically the beta is the only reason I bought Crackdown, however now that I have it, I'll certainly give it some quality time... I also bought Lost planet at the same time, so I'm set for a while.

 

[Nesh]

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN1119046520070513

 

[pipo]

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN1119046520070513

Saw that one, not sure were they're looking though.

From 1up to IGN to Eurogamer and [insert random site here], I see nothing but raving...

By the way, 'Halo 3 review' is pushing it a bit anyway IMO. At least say something with 'beta', 'multiplayer' and 'preview' in it.

Reuters looking for some traffic?

 

[Tap In]

Saw that one, not sure were they're looking though.

From 1up to IGN to Eurogamer and [insert random site here], I see nothing but raving...

By the way, 'Halo 3 review' is pushing it a bit anyway IMO. At least say something with 'beta', 'multiplayer' and 'preview' in it.

Reuters looking for some traffic?

agreed

I think this GAF player of the BETA (many games not just a cursory Press look-see) hits the nail on the head with his assessment...

Kind of a tanget, but I think a lot of people - especially some of the mainstream press articles - are confusing style with graphics. I've seen a lot of comments about how the game looks similar to Halo 2 - and it does, in style. I'd say the art style is nearly identical (which is a good thing, IMO - loved Halo 2's "look").

But it's a gargantuan leap in fidelity. Everywhere you look, there's beautiful stuff. Leaves falling from trees on High Ground. Absolutely perfect water on Valahalla, and that gorgous waterfall; look down and there tons of grass, flowers and even weeds. I only just recently noticed how detailed the mountains in the background are - and it's all real geometry. The number of objects that can move or break on High Ground is in the triple digits. Etc.

It's becoming a pet peve of mine when people say it looks like Halo 2 for that reason. It does, and it doesn't.

and this one...

In multilplayer, Gears of War is extremely narrowly focused. It also has no vehicles, very low-level geometry, pre-baked lighting (no HDR), no verticality whatsoever.

The lighting in High Ground is the best I've seen so far on the 360. Coming in and out of the shade is just so natural looking. I love it.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Gears has HDR. UE3 has been one of the first engines to implement it.

Adjusting exposure dynamically isn't HDR... can be done in other ways too as far as I know.