GT 5 Prologue this fall, Gran Turismo 5 spring 2008

[onanie]

Photorealistic bumber cars being GT i presumed and Cartoony damage being Forza.

If you play GT4 the "right way" you don´t have bumper races, you don´t cheat you dont race in over powered super cars against Ford-T models. As someone likes to say over and over again, consumer choice, sorry it´s a player choice.
If you pick the "right way" the experience is really mindblowing

Not to mention the penalties for hitting walls and going off-road has been increased significantly in GT5. Ever tried to "bumper" your way around a corner in GT5? Your car would rattle profusely, like in real life.

My personal opinion is that damage modelling might detract from the original GT spirit. To me, the GT core has always been about forever perfecting your racing lines, corner approaches, fine throttle control and such, ultimately to beat your PB or even the WR out there. Crashes don't necessarily encourage best line driving, as there are already realistic physical penalties for hitting obstacles or driving on grass. If you had a catastrophic crash, you would hit "restart" anyway, as anyone would.

GT has been successful in simply being itself, and for now, does not seem preoccupied with a feature-checklist-ticking contest with other wannabies. I am personally glad about this.

 

[StefanS]

Just a little heads-up:

Don't turn this into Forza vs GT discussion, mmkay?

 

[nintenho]

just stick with the Arcade racers then. stay away from racing sims.

I always felt GT was an arcade racer with sim progression (licenses, real cars, etc).

 

[homy]

From Che, forza team

No flipping, burning, crushing the A/B pillars, drivers through windows, dismemberment, losing tires, blah blah, the list goes on.

Manufacturers run a business selling cars. Why would they want to give you permission to destroy their IP and make their products look bad?

It sounds too PR (bullsh*t) to me. The cars got their body destroyed but flippng, burning are not allowed. This seems like they try to cover up their incompetent.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

From Che, forza team


It sounds too PR (bullsh*t) to me. The cars got their body destroyed but flippng, burning are not allowed. This seems like they try to cover up their incompetent.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense. If an artist can make a mild-damage model they can surely make a heavy-damage model, and everything inbetween. If your engine can assign minimal and moderate damage depending on speed, angle of impact, etc. then the calculations are there to support more severe damage assignments. About the only thing that I would think the engine might need to be modified to handle is flipping, but with physics based racing I doubt that would be too difficult to handle either.

In short, your theory smacks of wishful thinking in a bad kind of way.

 

[Nesh]

I always felt GT was an arcade racer with sim progression (licenses, real cars, etc).

That doesnt show that you have the game

 

[nintenho]

That doesnt show that you have the game

huh?

 

[Nesh]

huh?

Simply you dont seem to have it and you havent playied any GT extensively or even at all

 

[homy]

I'm sorry but that makes no sense. If an artist can make a mild-damage model they can surely make a heavy-damage model, and everything inbetween. If your engine can assign minimal and moderate damage depending on speed, angle of impact, etc. then the calculations are there to support more severe damage assignments. About the only thing that I would think the engine might need to be modified to handle is flipping, but with physics based racing I doubt that would be too difficult to handle either.

In short, your theory smacks of wishful thinking in a bad kind of way.

Bumper being dropped from the cars is mild-damage? If you hit your car into a fence with the speed of 100 mph, would your car catch fire? You haven't seen a car flipping, have you? Your logic is worse my man.
The car flipping physics are very hard to implement because when it flips body parts would fly over the place otherwise it would look like a last gen game.

In short, your reasoning is kinda bad.

 

[nintenho]

Simply you dont seem to have it and you havent playied any GT extensively or even at all

The physics aren't realistic.

No sim game makes an AWD car skid like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm7x...ums/index.php?showtopic=91510&st=0&p=1657875&

The reason there's so many problems when people compare GT to sim games is that it doesn't try to be one.

i.e: he takes a turn at 20-30 mph but in the game the player does it at 60-70 mph.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Bumper being dropped from the cars is mild-damage?

Forced to be that way as part of the license contract with car manufacturers. Read up a few posts.

If you hit your car into a fence with the speed of 100 mph, would your car catch fire?

Probably not. Cars rarely catch fire, except in the completely unrealistic world of Hollywood. You don't believe that is the way reality works, do you?

You haven't seen a car flipping, have you?

Personally? No, and I hope I never do.

The car flipping physics are very hard to implement because when it flips body parts would fly over the place otherwise it would look like a last gen game.

Hard to make 100% realistic, yes. But that's like arguing that car paint is hard to get perfect so let's just have flat gourard shading FTW! It's hard to get tire breakaway exactly right too, so let's just make all the cars act like they are glued to the track! Yeah, arcade FTW again!

I think I may have made this comment in another thread, but in a driving SIM these effects aren't there to look pretty, they serve a purpose for the sim (i.e., damage affects the way your car handles, and damage models let other drivers know whose car is damaged).

 

[homy]

Forced to be that way as part of the license contract with car manufacturers. Read up a few posts.

Have you seen the contract? or you believe whatever they say to cover up their incompetent?

Probably not. Cars rarely catch fire, except in the completely unrealistic world of Hollywood. You don't believe that is the way reality works, do you?

Probably is not the word "never".

Hard to make 100% realistic, yes. But that's like arguing that car paint is hard to get perfect so let's just have flat gourard shading FTW! It's hard to get tire breakaway exactly right too, so let's just make all the cars act like they are glued to the track! Yeah, arcade FTW again!

It doesn't have to be 100% but must be believable. It should have next-gen physics.

Nice way to spin dude

 

[Nesh]

The physics aren't realistic.

No sim game makes an AWD car skid like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm7x...ums/index.php?showtopic=91510&st=0&p=1657875&

The reason there's so many problems when people compare GT to sim games is that it doesn't try to be one.

what? GT doesnt try to be one? That statement is sooo wrong in so many ways.

Also about the video, I dont know about an AWD since I know none who attempted it and failed or succeeded at doing it personally, but I ve seen videos from Japanese drift racings. And they do such skids a lot. 90% of these races are nothing but drifting/skidding

 

[Nesh]

Now THIS should be interesting. Here is an EVO (same as the GT:HD video)

Japanese drift with EVO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-T7KxkeM90

 

[Mmmkay]

The physics aren't realistic.

No sim game makes an AWD car skid like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm7x...ums/index.php?showtopic=91510&st=0&p=1657875&

The reason there's so many problems when people compare GT to sim games is that it doesn't try to be one.

Drift Trail mode seems to have a different handling setup to the normal racing component, and it's also a separate part of the game. Besides, in order to achieve scores like that you have to disable ASM, put Traction Control down to 0, and equip normal road tyres.

 

[crazygambit]

Forced to be that way as part of the license contract with car manufacturers. Read up a few posts.

Probably not. Cars rarely catch fire, except in the completely unrealistic world of Hollywood. You don't believe that is the way reality works, do you?

I was wondering why Hollywood gets away with having real cars burn, flip over, cause massive carnage, and all that while game developers have to get a licence and severily limit what they can do to those cars. Seems weird to me.

 

[nintenho]

Now THIS should be interesting. Here is an EVO (same as the GT:HD video)

Japanese drift with EVO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-T7KxkeM90

They modify AWD cars like the Evo for drifting in competitions. In order to do drifting like that you need a RWD car.

 

[phat]

They modify AWD cars like the Evo for drifting in competitions. In order to do drifting like that you need a RWD car.

I've seen many AWD cars drift exactly as they do in GT. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zYZ_zItA1Y.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Have you seen the contract? or you believe whatever they say to cover up their incompetent?

Have you tested the devs and know they are incompetent, or do you just say whatever you must to fit your agenda?

Probably is not the word "never".

Wait, even though cars rarely blow up in real life, even in hard core racing situations, you expect that to the be norm for damage in a game? I don't get it. At all.

It doesn't have to be 100% but must be believable. It should have next-gen physics.

Whether or not the engine can handle it or not is a moot point. Licensing will not allow it.

Nice way to spin dude

That's the quote of the year. You're trying to explain that GT hasn't/doesn't have damage because the "other guys" that have done it don't do it well enough? And that ISN'T spin? Sheesh. I thought this wasn't supposed to be a vs. debate anyway... so I'll just concede your point that everyone but GT developers are incompetent and eagerly await their next release. Happy?

 

[nintenho]

I've seen many AWD cars drift exactly as they do in GT. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zYZ_zItA1Y.

that doesn't look anywhere near what's happening in the video I posted.