Formula 1 - 2011 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
The way I see it, Massa would have seen to be at fault because what he did was unnecessary. The Stewards likely believed that if Massa was driving more defensively and didn't cause the collision he would have kept the position anyway after going round the corner.
I'm really surprised this is still going on in here. It doesn't matter who was in the lead - in the end, it comes down to a simple rule that one shall not crowd other cars off the track - in other words, leave room for each other! If Webber and Alonso can pull off an overtake going into Eau Rouge, then surely it's not far off to expect Massa to leave some room on his inside (which he did not). To say his only other option would be to go onto the dirt (tongue_of_colicab) makes me wonder if we were really watching the same race.
Here's what Herbert says, one of the stewards in India:
Here's what Herbert says, one of the stewards in India:
Johny Herbert / Autosport said:
How is using the standard racing line "more defensively"?
The standard Safe Practices for Motor Vehicle Operations, ANSI/ASSE Z15.1, defines defensive driving as "driving to save lives, time, and money, in spite of the conditions around you and the actions of others."
Basically, like Colourless said, he could have gone round the corner without crashing in to Lewis and still come out ahead. The collision was a result of Massa deciding to collide with Lewis, which is why Massa got the penalty.
As the quote from Herbert shows, Lewis was trying to avoid the collision when it became clear it wouldn't work, but Massa deliberately didn't do his part in avoiding it.
Indeed.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
So instead of expecting Hamilton to brake a bit more so he would be behind Massa (would make since as there was no way of being able to pass anyway) instead Massa, the one who was infront and on the racing line is expected to move over on the dirt to make room for someone being stubborn and only backed out of a impossible overtake halfassed?
Do you have access to the same telemetry that the stewards do? Do you have experience of racing professionally? Unless the answer to both of those is 'yes', you aren't in a position to criticise the stewards decision - you don't know how hard Hamilton was breaking etc.
As has been said many times before, the stewards have spoken, lets just drop it.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Do you have experience running a country? Do you have all the knowledge and data the gouvernment has? You get the point.
I'm allowed to criticise whatever I want. Don't like it? Well nobody is forcing you to reply to me. Just because something has been decided doesnt mean it was the right decision or that it doesnt warrant a discussion.
Funny thing is I never see posts like this when it's Hamilton who gets penalized.
I'm allowed to criticise whatever I want. Don't like it? Well nobody is forcing you to reply to me. Just because something has been decided doesnt mean it was the right decision or that it doesnt warrant a discussion.
Funny thing is I never see posts like this when it's Hamilton who gets penalized.
You must have intentionally forgotten Monaco. I wonder why.
Didn't India run a great race cjo?
I agree with you t_o_c, no one needs to respond to you.
By the way there is some absolutely fantastic commentary on some of the F1 Forum's - a lot of good insight from semi-pro's, amateurs and enthusiasts. Here it all feels a bit wishy-washy, we are just going over the same points ad nauseum.
General question that is not entirely unrelated: Anyone driven a single seater racer, (and karting doesn't count)?
To answer my own question: I have and it adds a little to the experience of watching a grand prix - I would recommend it to any fan of Formula 1.
I agree with you t_o_c, no one needs to respond to you.
By the way there is some absolutely fantastic commentary on some of the F1 Forum's - a lot of good insight from semi-pro's, amateurs and enthusiasts. Here it all feels a bit wishy-washy, we are just going over the same points ad nauseum.General question that is not entirely unrelated: Anyone driven a single seater racer, (and karting doesn't count)?
To answer my own question: I have and it adds a little to the experience of watching a grand prix - I would recommend it to any fan of Formula 1.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Ohh yes that was another one of Hamiltons beauties. Taking a tight corner so tight that the only way to get out of it is to run into the side of your competitor :')
Way to miss the point.
I agree, which is why I'm wondering more and more if there's a point of even participating in here. To me, it seems like some just want to bash into some drivers rather than have a meaningful constructive conversation about what exactly happened, why it happened. Usually, I don't even want to check into this topic after a race if I know there's something even remotely Hamilton related that happened.
Reading some of the comments in here, also suggest, some don't follow motorsports closely. I take it that the stewards haven't really been consistent in their decisions which make it all the more confusing at times, but to have the same old arguments from those and proclaim it as fact rather than be open to a slightly different viewpoint or for an open objective discussion is very disturbing. A real shame, given how high the level of discussion usually is in all the other technology related subforums, here on B3d.
A shame also because F1 is such a technology driven sport that there are so many exciting things worth discussing - just a glance on scarbsf1 shows how much there is to talk about and analyze - yet it seems it is only the Hamilton events that spark discussions (and that of the negative kind) in here.
Did they alter the track from last year?So,
Anyone looking forward to Abu Dhabi?
I know I am, 'cause I'll be sitting in corner 8 throughout the weekend
Cheers
Don't think so. The track looks exactly the same as previous years.
We'll be sitting in grand stand west, at corner 8, right at the end of the main straight. Should be fun with DRS.
Cheers
