Xbox 360 HD-DVD Interview

[London Geezer]

Mate you really don't need to tell me about video formats.

All i'm saying is that, like with any deinterlacing, there can be issues whether you like it or not. If not, we would have stuck to, say, 480i, 720i or 1080i and let the deinterlacer do the dirty work. That is obviously not the case. 480i material can still have issues in motion when deinterlaced and so will 1080i. Especially because TVs deinterlacers are never the best except for the higher end - certainly not the likes of Samsung - and even then there can be artifacts.

About your mith-debug... Of course 1080p won't show u a better picture while displaying DVDs or even 720p material, no one ever claimed that, however the extra resolution DOES have an effect even on 1080i material if it's actually true 1920*1080i. And obviously you will see a difference for material in 1080p (HD movies on any format), depending on screen size and viewing distance.

I really don't see why people are actually against 1080p. Personally i'm against the fact that it's being pushed so hard on PS3 games - if it affects other things in the process, like framerate for example - but other than that, it's very much welcomed when it comes to movies, both HDDVD and Bluray, and if i ever want to plug my future TV to my PC and run it at 1920*1080. And let's not forget that only 1080p LCD panels can show a full 1080i image due to the increase of resolution that just isn't covered in 720p panels.

 

[scooby_dooby]

All i'm saying is that, like with any deinterlacing, there can be issues whether you like it or not. If not, we would have stuck to, say, 480i, 720i or 1080i and let the deinterlacer do the dirty work.

No we wouldn't have, as the CE industry needs to push the next great thing which is currently 1080p. So even if 1080i de-interlacing was perfect, they would still push the new wave of technology. And after 1080p, it will be something else that they push.

I really don't care either way, as my TV is 1080i native, so I take offense to that somewhat, why would I 'not like it'? I'm not personally invested in this at all, just pointing out the facts, the facts are that currently 1080p TV's will take a 1080i input through component, and it will look amazing at full 1080 resolution.

btw, I wasn't telling you about 'formats' I was pointing out why legacy support for 1080i de-interlacing is not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[London Geezer]

I really don't care either way, as my TV is 1080i native, so I take offense to that somewhat, why would I 'not like it'? I'm not personally invested in this at all, just pointing out the facts, the facts are that currently 1080p TV's will take a 1080i input through component, and it will look amazing at full 1080 resolution.

Totally agree. 1080i looks amazing on displays that can actually resolve the whole 1080i resolution. In fact we can see the difference even now in the UK with SkyHD: it broadcasts at 1080i and it looks better on 1080p panels like the Sony X-series or the Toshiba 6-series (to name a couple) than on "normal" 720p panels.

 

[RobertR1]

If you want the ideal scenario, you'd take the 1080P/24 source (both HD DVD and BR) and it'd be outputted as such and the TV would use a multiple of 24.....ideally say 120. Now you're talking "perfect" picture.

Even a 1080P/60 TV is doing a 3:2 pulldown to give you a 1080P image. Then again, I hope you people have professionally calibrated displays before talking about perfect PQ, benefits of 1080P and whatever marketing term you prefer today I don't, so I stay out of it.

Can't wait to hear about "deep color" being spammed all over next year. There! I started the buzz

If you really care about the "perfect" picture, I suggest reading this highly informative thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731479

 

[London Geezer]

If you want the ideal scenario, you'd take the 1080P/24 source (both HD DVD and BR) and it'd be outputted as such and the TV would use a multiple of 24.....ideally say 120. Now you're talking "perfect" picture.

Even a 1080P/60 TV is doing a 3:2 pulldown to give you a 1080P image. Then again, I hope you people have professionally calibrated displays before talking about perfect PQ, benefits of 1080P and whatever marketing term you prefer today I don't, so I stay out of it.

Can't wait to hear about "deep color" being spammed all over next year. There! I started the buzz

If you really care about the "perfect" picture, I suggest reading this highly informative thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731479

To be honest, i stay very clear of the term "perfect picture" especially when talking about LCD displays, even the top of the top still can't do proper blacks! Then again, neither can plasma...

 

[RobertR1]

To be honest, i stay very clear of the term "perfect picture" especially when talking about LCD displays, even the top of the top still can't do proper blacks! Then again, neither can plasma...

True but I still prefer a pure source > destination than seeing judder, which if you notice once, you'll notice everytime. Kinda like lack of AA The actual PQ ability of the set is different from what I'm referring to.

 

[Gubbi]

I don't think there is much more to it than that, perhaps there will be a noticeable different between de-interlaced 1080p and true 1080p, but I really doubt that most humans will be able to see it. I don't really have any experience viewing 1080p sets so I'm just guessing here, but as Gubbi says, the problem of deinterlacing a 1080i image is already solved, so this really should not be an issue.

Sorry, but my comment was only in relation to movie playback, 1080p is obviously better than 1080i in games etc, or if we ever see 50/60 fps source material.

Regarding judder: there's no real reason why a display shouldn't be able to detect 3:2 pull down and then refresh at 24, 48 or 72Hz. Of course transmitting the stream as 1080p24 would solve that.

Anyway, judder is still better than the 4% speedup we see in PAL50-land

Cheers

 

[Tap In]

a little feedback from an HD DVD user on the add-on

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4548580&postcount=1

Got hands on with the HD DVD Drive today and all I can say is.....

It really can't get any better. I played with a unit tonight here in Toronto and I am extremely impressed.

First I already own a Toshiba HD XA1 HD DVD player and have been supporting the format since launch. The area which the $199 360 add-on kicks the Tosh's butt is loading. From the time you turn on your Xbox, the film immediately starts playing. It's actually the same speed as a DVD and in some cases faster with Chapter advances. The unit is very well built and is really really quiet. With the 360 running on only 1 CPU, the console is also a lot quieter. Sadly they still couldn't discuss the next gen audio capabilities and if they could even be possible through a Toslink connection. Doubtful at best imo. But all in all the unit is a clear winner.

And I've got some great news for us Canadians. We all know the unit is $199 US right? Well it's going to be cheaper in Canada. Yep it'll retail for $199 Cdn which is about $25 less than the US with exchange. How's them apples! And we still get Kong and the RF Remote.

The date is still November for NA but a actually day hasn't been confirmed yet.

Oh a rumour has it that there will be HD software also prepackaged with the HD A2 and HD XA2 2nd Generation HD DVD players starting late this month/early November. The HD DVD camp is pushing hard to win this war.

Sorry about the absense regarding image quality. For all those that asked or are interested I've got good news.

First off we were using the player on Toshiba's 72" 72MX916 Rear DLP uncalibrated. This was pretty close to factory settings, which isn't ideal. It was a good test based upon the fact that that the image was quite large to see any noticeable issues.

We set the player to output 1080i. The 1080p update won't be out for a few weeks and we didn't bother with the 720p setting. Because I don't own the same display, I use a 34" XBR, I was really impressed with how close the image quality was. Again my display is calibrated and is a tube so color and black level detail was better. BUT this display was also in a hotel conference room as well so the lighting was not bad but not perfect.

Obviously what I'm getting at is everyone with the exception of a videophile with an expensive display, like myself, will love this unit. We were using Serenity and Tokyo Drift.

And someone asked about the $1000 price tag for my HD DVD player. You are correct that $500 is the common player available, but I'm using the XA1 which was released in limited quantities and is Toshiba's reference player which sells for $1000 in Canada. There isn't a difference in image quality between the two Toshiba players. Now the XA2 which comes out this fall will be the first stand alone player on the market with an HDMI 1.3 output (excluding the PS3) allowing for the first time, 44bit color processing. Sadly ZERO displays have the input to use it, but we will see sets shipping in the Spring that will. This is a much more important feature than 1080p which honestly isn't that big a deal.

Any other questions that I have covered please feel free to ask.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sounds like all good news.

 

[slider]

I'll tell you what I like about the HD-DVD upgrade. It's a little like my position with a HDTV - can't afford it at the mo. But I will eventually get one & depending on how things go with the next-gen format wars I may get this sucker for my 360.

Choice is good.

 

[Mythos]

sounds like an enthusist preview...

Other than it loads faster and that's it quite...Meh!!!

I'm interested in PQ details...

 

[cthellis42]

I must admit I thought the HD-DVD 360 add-0n was a plain dumb idea. But for 129.99 pound and with the remote and KK thrown in, it has become a very attractive proposition.

How are they going to fit Ken Kutaragi in every package for ONLY $130 pounds?!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

You promised crying! Make good on your promise!

(Or were you just using shady PR?)

 

[RobertR1]

Sorry, but my comment was only in relation to movie playback, 1080p is obviously better than 1080i in games etc, or if we ever see 50/60 fps source material.

Regarding judder: there's no real reason why a display shouldn't be able to detect 3:2 pull down and then refresh at 24, 48 or 72Hz. Of course transmitting the stream as 1080p24 would solve that.

Anyway, judder is still better than the 4% speedup we see in PAL50-land

Cheers

No more 25 in PAL. With HD DVD (not sure about BR) there is no NTSC/PAL. All movies are encoded in 1080p/24. Couple that with the lack of region coding and you're free to watch HD DVD's from any where, in any where. Makes me happy Oh and Studio Canal will be using VC1 for their Euro Titles also.

Personally, I cannot stand judder but to each his own. I will admit that it's certainly more noticeable at closer viewing distances.

 

[London Geezer]

sounds like an enthusist preview...

Other than it loads faster and that's it quite...Meh!!!

I'm interested in PQ details...

Fact is that in the end, whatever quality the HDDVD player really is compared to standalone players, HDDVD playback looks SO much better than DVD - especially when you watch DVDs on most LCD HDTVs - that it will be hard to find unhappy people, except the geeks who will always compare the X360 player to the real standalone ones.

That's valid for the Bluray player on PS3. In the end, Bluray movies will look so much better than DVDs that it will hardly matter if the PS3 one is of "lower quality" than a standalone one, which it most probably will.


Who gains in the end? Us, the consumers, who get cheap HDDVD and/or Bluray players without having to sell a kidney and make room in the livingroom for one of those bulky standalone players!

 

[RobertR1]

HD DVD add on, hands on:

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home...-hd-dvd-and-2nd-gen-hd-dvd-players-207254.php

 

[Hardknock]

He toed the old 360-won't-have-hdmi line. He cited cost as the deciding factor when they were developing the hardware. He said that the HDCP and the ICT flag will never be a issue becasue the install base of the 360 HD-DVD drive will be so large (he said millions, mabye tens of millions) that any studio that decided to implement ICT would be roasted alive in the press. They wouldn't say how many HD-DVD drives would be available at launch (Nov 17, i think), but later on during different questions/conversations they said there would be "a couple hundred thousand", and "several hundred thousand" for the holidays.

Interesting. I think this pretty much confirms there being a sku with builtin HD-DVD sometime in 2007...

 

[a688]

Interesting. I think this pretty much confirms there being a sku with builtin HD-DVD sometime in 2007...

Why is that? It sounds like he is saying that a large percentage of the HD-DVD players in the market will be the xbox360 HD-DVD add-on and that has nothing to do w/ a model of the xbox360 having HDMI.

 

[Hardknock]

Why is that? It sounds like he is saying that a large percentage of the HD-DVD players in the market will be the xbox360 HD-DVD add-on and that has nothing to do w/ a model of the xbox360 having HDMI.

Do you honestly believe the 360 HD-DVD addon will sell 10s of millions of units(which is what the quote is saying).

I seriously doubt that. They must be planning some kind of bundle or having it internal at some point.

 

[RobertR1]

I wouldn't be too shocked if there was 3rd part software available to let the HD DVD player play on the PC, rather quickly......

 

[Hardknock]

I wouldn't be too shocked if there was 3rd part software available to let the HD DVD player play on the PC, rather quickly......

And if that happens. HD-DVD will definitely blowup. $200 for an HD movie player, remote and King Kong is a steal.