Xbox 360 HD-DVD Interview

[mrboo]

Dude i can build a better system then that in my head in 30 second's

 

[Gradthrawn]

Dude i can build a better system then that in my head in 30 second's

Yeah, but can you afford it?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

And all the problems about not finding a TV that support 1080p over component, why dont you people just get one of these

Well that thing only goes to 1080i...

 

[mrboo]

Yeah, but can you afford it?

Question is have i got it?

 

[RobertR1]

Interesting...

Here he says :



but then here he says:



disingenuous or did he just forget?

Ask him which Mpeg2 titles using a 13Mbps average and look as good as Batman Begins on VC-1. VC-1 requiring more bitrate than Mpeg2 is the equivalent of saying the Sun rises in the West and sets in the East.

I just gave the MI:3 numbers above so I'm sure Don can comment on that also!

 

[Gradthrawn]

Question is have i got it?

Touché!

 

[swanlee]

All of the Westinghouse 1080P LCD TV's accept 1080P over, VGA, Component, DVI, HDMI. These LCD's range from 37 inch to 47 inches and the 47 inch version can be had for well under 2500$ on the net. I got the 42 inch version for 1700$

 

[expletive]

All the Sony 1080p Bravia's only accept 1080p via HDMI (and therefore DVI) and not through component or VGA and that's 100% sure.

The Samsungs are so far the only sets that will accept 1080p over component. All other manufacturers either haven't clarified or really haven't bothered, keeping 1080p input only through HDMI. VGA is usually capped too for some strange reason.

So Toshiba, Mitsubishi, RCA, Panasonic, etc are not accepting 1080p over component? Remember a lot of sets werent even accepting it over HDMI so i think its important to make the distinction that we're polling sets that CAN accept 1080p over HDMI.

On a side note, would have been huge slap in the face for 499 PS3 owners to not be able to output 1080p to their Sony Bravia over component, good thing they changed that model to include HDMI...

This is kinda scary though:

REFERENCE SYSTEM USED FOR THIS EVALUATION:
-Sony VPL-VW100 1080p SXRD LCoS projector
-92" Vutec Silverstar 16:9 aspect, fixed-panel screen with DIY 4-way duvetyne curtains/masking
-Denon 5910 universal DVD player (video via HDMI, audio via DLink)
-Panasonic RP82 dvd player (with SDI)
-Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player (both video and audio output via HDMI)
-Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD player (both video and audio via HDMI)(version 2.0)
-DVDO iScan VP50 (with SDI)
-Denon AVR-5805 THX a/v receiver configured for 5.2 and 7.2 channel playback
-Atlantic Tech. 370 THX speakers (monopole L-C-R mains and dipole side surrounds)
-Atlantic Tech. 350 THX speakers (dipole back surrounds for EX/ES playback)
-dual SVS PB2+ subs
-all held together by Bettercables interconnects and Canare 4S11 Star Quad speaker cable
-room has been acoustically treated/corrected with a combination of OC 703 rigid fiberglass absorption, light diffusion, and the aid of Audyssey EQ

Child's play...

 

[Hardknock]

Bravias don't. But I was refering to Flat Panel LCDs not projection LCDs. The majority of these if they are indeed a true 1080p TV will accept the signal over VGA.

 

[btdvox]

very cool link- the sony PR had said alot of PR crap too lol. though he says that VC-1 shows alot of artifacts from recent HDDVD i havnet seen much artifacts at all....

but the MI3 review looks great and promising

Another site reviewd both HDDVD and Blu ray versions and said the only difference was blu ray version was a bit softer image. Dont know waht that means but i would think there saying hd dvd is better? lol

 

[btdvox]

Just wanted to post the links for my last post- its funny to see different sites compare

anyways hers the site for the two reviews from above

http://www.docdvd.com/bluray_reviews_14366.htm

http://www.docdvd.com/hddvd_reviews_14359.htm

and now this is a funny alter- High def Digest is a pretty well known review site and we had a post from there earlier- they just posted thsi review

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/missionimpossibleiii.html
comparing both HD DVD and blu ray. Funny thing is they say both are mainly equal except BD has more Bitrate which i guess is better.

Its a pretty confusing battle. But it seems both codecs work well for both applications if done right lol.

 

[Asher]

All of the Westinghouse 1080P LCD TV's accept 1080P over, VGA, Component, DVI, HDMI. These LCD's range from 37 inch to 47 inches and the 47 inch version can be had for well under 2500$ on the net. I got the 42 inch version for 1700$

I got the 42 inch for $1999CDN also.

Be warned that while 1080p works flawlessly over VGA, Component, and DVI...HDMI is problematic. It can do 1080p 50Hz, but 60Hz produces "sparklies" and all kinds of annoying artifacts.

 

[ban25]

Right, I have no doubt that VC-1 is more efficient than MPEG-2, my point was simply that there are VC-1/AVC encoded titles on Blu-Ray and that MPEG-2 doesn't look bad if you've got the bitrate to spare. Had MI-3 been on a 50 GB disc, it surely would have been fine, but like you say, it was a dual-disc release for marketing purposes.

No one is questioning other studios. This is about Sony and since I've seen you on avs, you'd know that it wasn't until recently that Sony updated their authoring tools to include VC-1 and AVC thus earlier warner titles were also in Mpeg2. Now they can use the same encode of VC-1 they did for HD DVD and give it to Sony and let them put it on a BR disc.

It's the consistancy of Mpeg2 that is the problem. MI:3, they use the full disc for feature + audio, which is fine but let's take a look deeper. According to Stacey Spears (and notice how his reputation is very solid) in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8721933&&#post8721933 This gives you some bitrate info such as "For those interested, the avgerage bitrate on the BD version is about 4 Mbps higher than the peak bitrate on the VC-1 version.

I think the peak is ~15 Mbps higher. (peak to peak)"

Now if you run some numbers here is how it looks:
If VC-1 Peak bitrate = 20, then Mpeg Average bitrate = 24 (20+4)
If VC-1 Peak bitrate = 20, then Mpeg2 Peak bitrate = 35 (VC1 peak + 15)

That's VC-1 peak, seeing that VC-1 peaks are generally 50% higher than average you can put that down to 15 average for VC-1.

Now you're talking about a much more effecient codec giving the SAME quality. MI:3 is a dual disc for marketing purposes but had they tried to fit in onto a single disc, it's quite apparanty which codec is better suited for the job. I'm quite sure MI:3 is actually an old encode before Sony's authoring tools to include VC-1 were available. The reason I say this, the same encode for VC-1 on HD DVD can be used for BR so it'd make more sense to not double the workload for the studio and post houses.

 

[btdvox]

i guess the extra space on BR's help then.

 

[London Geezer]

So Toshiba, Mitsubishi, RCA, Panasonic, etc are not accepting 1080p over component? Remember a lot of sets werent even accepting it over HDMI so i think its important to make the distinction that we're polling sets that CAN accept 1080p over HDMI.

On a side note, would have been huge slap in the face for 499 PS3 owners to not be able to output 1080p to their Sony Bravia over component, good thing they changed that model to include HDMI...

Well, in all honesty, the X and W series Bravia's are the first really "mainstream" 1080p panels to come out here in the UK (if you can call a £1500-£3000 HDTV "mainstream"), and i know for sure that they only take 1080p from HDMI. Max from component is 1080i and max from VGA is that silly 1360x768. VGA can be pushed to something like 1440x1050 on the X-series and the W-series apparently but i'm not 100% sure. Stupid if you ask me, but i guess they're saving on circuitry, expecting everyone to use HDMI or DVI to input 1080p, which kinda makes sense as if you have a PC that can actually output resolutions of 1920*1080 properly - and play HD movies at that res to begin with! - it would have a DVI connection.

As HD LCD market leaders however, it is important that the Bravia's that can display 1080p, can't actually take it from component or VGA.

Regarding the Toshiba's, so far the summer models could only take 1080i anyway. Panasonic is a bit late to the party too.

And please keep in mind i'm talking about UK/EU models!

Child's play...

I wonder how many remotes he's using.....

 

[Rangers]

The thing thats stopping me from running to the shop's and buying one of the drive's when they release is this little voice in the back of my head saying " What if HD-DVD lose's to Blu-Ray?, you've wasted money "

If HD-DVD was here to stay id soon go and buy one, but with Blu-Ray having more support im split in my decision ]

That's my problem as well. I'm getting less worried about it, as in the early going HDDVD is really taking it to Blu-Ray, so it seems at the very least a split market is likely. Also, the less you spend the less worry that is. Buying a $400 Toshiba HDDVD would obviously worry me a lot more than a $199 X360 drive. If the drive was $99 at some anytime near point, then even less worry, because each time it's less possible money wasted.

I see this kind of headed for some split market and dual capable players everywhere. The thing I'm worried about then, is how do you make hybrid discs that play on both formats?
________
WHITE WIDOW SEEDS

 

[London Geezer]

how do you make hybrid discs that play on both formats?

You mean hybrid players that read both formats?

Or hybrid discs that play on both players?

 

[cthellis42]

Uppity Brit.

 

[inefficient]

Well, in all honesty, the X and W series Bravia's are the first really "mainstream" 1080p panels to come out here in the UK (if you can call a £1500-£3000 HDTV "mainstream"), and i know for sure that they only take 1080p from HDMI. Max from component is 1080i and max from VGA is that silly 1360x768. VGA can be pushed to something like 1440x1050 on the X-series and the W-series apparently but i'm not 100% sure.

Actually the X-series can do 1080p over the 15pin PC input. It's the V-series that has that limitation. The work around most people use is just buy a HDMI to DVI converter and connect their PCs that way.

Also I would call the V-series the "mainstream" 1080p line. While the X-series is intended to be the premium model. The V is considerably cheaper but the panel technology itself is the same.

 

[London Geezer]

Actually the X-series can do 1080p over the 15pin PC input. It's the V-series that has that limitation. The work around most people use is just buy a HDMI to DVI converter and connect their PCs that way.

Also I would call the V-series the "mainstream" 1080p line. While the X-series is intended to be the premium model. The V is considerably cheaper but the panel technology itself is the same.

?? The V-series is a 1360*768 panel so of course the VGA input is limitied to that res.

In the UK the X-Series VGA input is limited to 1360*768, and you can trust me, it's true. It will not take 1920*1080 through VGA. In the US or Japan, things are probably different, you can put that under the already long list of things Europeans get shafted. And not in a good way.

By "mainstream" i was really talking about "widely available"...