4K gaming and viewing review

RobertR1

Pro
Legend
Over the holidays I picked up the 65inch Sony 4K set that doesn't come with speakers and has active 3D vs passive. I have no need for either. My goals were simple. PQ benefits over my calibrated Pioneer Kuro 151.

The Sony set: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/65-clas...9066831831&skuId=1912267&st=sony 4k&cp=1&lp=3

I have 4 video sources going into an Onkyo receiver and then to the HDMI port of the TV.
Sources:
Xbox One (gaming and blu ray)
HD DVD player. HD-A35 the final flagship model by Toshiba
Motorola Comcast HD DVR
AppleTV latest gen as of this post

I then found a few post calibrated settings from AVSforum and home theater mag. I used these as a baseline to come to a picture that worked for me.

My viewing distance is 13ft away.

Resolution:
Static resolution is the area where the 4K Sony shines beautifully. Give it static or slow moving images and the resolution bump is beautiful. BluRay's and HD DVD's that do not contain a lot of action look great. For gaming, AutoVista in Forza 5 looks phenomenal. Even thought these are 1080p sources, the upscaling to 4K is a very noticeable benefit. Unfortunately, this is where the set starts showing major limitations.
Once motion is introduced the effects of 4K start to diminish rapidly. By the time you're dealing with fast paced action or games, the Pioneer actually seems to preserve the quality better. This set is simply not able to keep up with fast motion while preserving resolution quality.

Panel response:
In Game mode, the response time seems fine as the panel auto enables and grays out "maximum panel speed" option. You still have options to adjust other settings to turn the PQ. I'd say the Plasma and LCD are close enough to work well. Remember though, as above, when action fast the resolution on the LCD actually seems worse.

Off axis viewing:
If PQ is of any concern and at the cost of this set, it should be! then you best sit dead center or slightly to the sides to get the best out of it. Horizon and vertical off axis performance to me, is unacceptable. I'm often watching TV from an angle while at my desk and it's not a possibility with this set. The Pioneer plasma wins this hands down.

Gaming impression:
Forza 5 = Looks great in autovista but when racing, the resolution benefits are not noticeable.
Killer Instinct = The IQ is cleaner when the action is idle but drops off quickly once you start fighting and landing combos
Battlefield 4 = surprising nice bump in IQ which is preserved better when you're outdoors. Once in CQB and quick movement, the benefit disappears


My recommendation for now would be to wait for the 2nd gen of 4k displays. What good is a bump in resolution if you lose most of it when things start moving on the screen? Next year should also hopefully give us the BluRay 4k format along with HDMI 2.0 throughout the component range. The biggest thing to look for is a bump in panel speed which will preserve the benefits of 4K. Off axis can be subjective based on your viewing requirements but that's another area needing massive improvements.
 

joker454

Veteran
Did you try any pc gaming at native 4k resolution? I considered a 4k tv purely for that but passed for now because I won't compromise on 60fps, and it's still for the moment tough to get 4k gaming at 60fps. Also are you going to keep the tv or return in?
 

Graham

Hello :-)
Veteran
Supporter
I'll be getting the speaker version of this TV in a few days. We'll see how it works out, but my understanding is the version with speakers has a very different coating on the screen, plus a glass front - whereas the non speaker one is matte. So they look different and have different viewing angles. Honestly the passive 3d (which is full 1080 on the 65) is a big selling point for me.

Sadly it's pretty much expected that LCD motion resolution cannot match plasma, but I do wonder if the 4k upscaling is doing some kind of temporal processing?

Fwiw I'll also be getting Sony's 4k player with the TV as a freebie. Gotta love staff sales :mrgreen:

And joker, out of the box I do not believe the Sony supports 4k60, at least it didn't initially. Something about Sony having to replace the mainboard if you needed it... HDMI 2.0 I guess
 

joker454

Veteran
And joker, out of the box I do not believe the Sony supports 4k60, at least it didn't initially. Something about Sony having to replace the mainboard if you needed it... HDMI 2.0 I guess

Oh yeah, for some reason I was assuming that 4k tv's had display port connectors on them and hence 60fps support. My bad.
 

Graham

Hello :-)
Veteran
Supporter
Samsung's looks pretty good, as their main TVs seem to be full led array backlit [edit] apparently not - just a lot more accurate dimming. The Sony is only dynamic edge lit, which is apparently even more prominent on the 55".
Still, at the price I paid :)mrgreen:) I'm not complaining. At least yet.


Trustedreviews.com are pretty good for TV stuff I've found (few places review the sheer number of sets they do)
 

dagamer

Veteran
It's a shame there likely won't be 4K plasmas. Here's to hoping 4K OLED becomes so etching we can eventually buy at reasonable prices.
 

RobertR1

Pro
Legend
Did you try any pc gaming at native 4k resolution? I considered a 4k tv purely for that but passed for now because I won't compromise on 60fps, and it's still for the moment tough to get 4k gaming at 60fps. Also are you going to keep the tv or return in?

I'm going to return in and see what the 2014 sets offer. There is certainly a lot of room for improvement. Since I never hook up my PC to the tv, it's honestly not a viable use case for me.

I'll be getting the speaker version of this TV in a few days. We'll see how it works out, but my understanding is the version with speakers has a very different coating on the screen, plus a glass front - whereas the non speaker one is matte. So they look different and have different viewing angles. Honestly the passive 3d (which is full 1080 on the 65) is a big selling point for me.

Sadly it's pretty much expected that LCD motion resolution cannot match plasma, but I do wonder if the 4k upscaling is doing some kind of temporal processing?

Fwiw I'll also be getting Sony's 4k player with the TV as a freebie. Gotta love staff sales :mrgreen:

And joker, out of the box I do not believe the Sony supports 4k60, at least it didn't initially. Something about Sony having to replace the mainboard if you needed it... HDMI 2.0 I guess

The screen coating is different but the viewing angle issue remains on both based on what I observed in the store. It's just a lot more pronounced in the house where the lighting is a bit more controlled.

Sony already came out with a firmware update that provides 2.0 support but there seems to be a slight difference in the color bit depth they support, 4:2:0 vs 4:4:4. Info is still a bit vague but check out the avsforum thread for more details.

If you're getting a killer deal then by all means take it! But I'm limited to retail pricing which means I best wait for the next version.

After you get yours let me know what settings you are using and maybe you'll find some that preserve motion resolution without having the soap opera effect or other artifacts.

I held off on the 4k media server because I first wanted to make sure it's viable for 2k which would be 99% of my viewing for the foreseeable future.
 

RobertR1

Pro
Legend
Have you tried 4K from other brands like Sharp, LG etc? How does it compare to the SONY?

Sony's 4k is the best out right now based on all my research and had the set worked out for me, it's the only brand with a 4k content server available.
 

RobertR1

Pro
Legend
It's a shame there likely won't be 4K plasmas. Here's to hoping 4K OLED becomes so etching we can eventually buy at reasonable prices.

Our only hope is samsung and lg on that front.

Sony and Panasonic dissolved their oled partnership.

I have seen the samsung oled in person. It's truly in a league of its own. The biggest issue with the oled was motion resolution but from a black level and color reproduction perspective, it's like a NFL All-Star vs high schooler.

75inch 4k oled with better motion resolution is my ultimate dream.
 

Graham

Hello :-)
Veteran
Supporter
Sony already came out with a firmware update that provides 2.0 support but there seems to be a slight difference in the color bit depth they support, 4:2:0 vs 4:4:4. Info is still a bit vague but check out the avsforum thread for more details.

If you're getting a killer deal then by all means take it! But I'm limited to retail pricing which means I best wait for the next version.

After you get yours let me know what settings you are using and maybe you'll find some that preserve motion resolution without having the soap opera effect or other artifacts.

I held off on the 4k media server because I first wanted to make sure it's viable for 2k which would be 99% of my viewing for the foreseeable future.

4:2:0 afaik will have lower chroma resolution, so perhaps that is their way of supporting it with lower bandwidth? I'd vaguely read of some ways to sacrifice color resolution in order to hit 4k60.

In the UK I had a hx830, and found that the 'clear' motion setting was the best. Also, I'd be aware that it can often take a while for a TV to break in - all my past LCD TVs have their motion handling improve and the hx's backlight uniformity improved over time. Before you return it, perhaps leave it running something with fast motion for 48 hours? Dunno...

As for the content server, I don't expect much. It has pretty mediocre reviews, I suspect the content selection will be pretty awful. It comes with 10 full movies preloaded, but pretty much the only one worth mentioning is Amazing Spiderman....
 

Cyan

orange
Legend
Supporter
I'll be getting the speaker version of this TV in a few days. We'll see how it works out, but my understanding is the version with speakers has a very different coating on the screen, plus a glass front - whereas the non speaker one is matte. So they look different and have different viewing angles. Honestly the passive 3d (which is full 1080 on the 65) is a big selling point for me.

Sadly it's pretty much expected that LCD motion resolution cannot match plasma, but I do wonder if the 4k upscaling is doing some kind of temporal processing?

Fwiw I'll also be getting Sony's 4k player with the TV as a freebie. Gotta love staff sales :mrgreen:

And joker, out of the box I do not believe the Sony supports 4k60, at least it didn't initially. Something about Sony having to replace the mainboard if you needed it... HDMI 2.0 I guess
You are a lucky boy. Still, after reading RobertR1's review I am certainly not sold on 4k at all, especially taking into account the space limitations of my room.

The technology is not there yet. No HDMI support for all the possibilities, panels are so very expensive and they aren't any better when it comes to things like lag or smooth motion.
 

babybumb

Regular
Best 1080p LCD sets with motion interpolation OFF will also display only about 300 lines in motion.. with MCFI they get full 1080

Sony sets can get to under 30ms response even with MCFI
 

Graham

Hello :-)
Veteran
Supporter
Interesting that review pretty much says 'get the 65'. :)
Also, TR measured the set at 30ms and the Samsung 4k set at over 60ms.

Did you try the clear/clear+ or impulse MI modes? Usually though impulse causes visible flicker....
I'm curious why you didn't go for the speaker version? Do you already have a nice sound system? I like the idea of decent audio on a TV.
 

RobertR1

Pro
Legend
Interesting that review pretty much says 'get the 65'. :)
Also, TR measured the set at 30ms and the Samsung 4k set at over 60ms.

Did you try the clear/clear+ or impulse MI modes? Usually though impulse causes visible flicker....

Impulse is causing flicker. I'll try clear and clear+. One of them reduced light output by a decent amount.
 

Graham

Hello :-)
Veteran
Supporter
Makes sense. They basically pulse the backlight at different intervals. So it can clear up motion at the cost of max brightness and potential flicker.
Also the review you posted mentions that the noise reduction causes motion blur unless you us game mode.
 

sir doris

Regular
Our only hope is samsung and lg on that front.

Sony and Panasonic dissolved their oled partnership.

I have seen the samsung oled in person. It's truly in a league of its own. The biggest issue with the oled was motion resolution but from a black level and color reproduction perspective, it's like a NFL All-Star vs high schooler.

75inch 4k oled with better motion resolution is my ultimate dream.

I thought Panasonic were stopping plasma production at the end of the year to concentrate on OLED based TVs?

Sent from my phone so please excuse my post if it makes no sense.
 

dagamer

Veteran
I thought Panasonic were stopping plasma production at the end of the year to concentrate on OLED based TVs?

Sent from my phone so please excuse my post if it makes no sense.


Problem is they dissolved their OLED technology relationship with Sony. Seems they are just chasing 4K LCDs now.
 
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