Sony PS6, Microsoft neXt Series - 10th gen console speculation [2020]

[ChuckeRearmed]

Maybe the return of non-touch friendly interface, plus the 'stability'/performance of google android combined with the rich app ecosystem of the Microsoft store?

MS could have bought Nokia and they would still fail. (actually they did at some point (bought buying Nokia as well as failing with windows phone 7/8/10))

You are certainly have some personal feud with MS. Oof.

What does this even mean? What possible advantages would this bring to your average smartphone user? Why would you choose a phone that emulates Android vs one that runs it natively?

What I mean is the seamless integration between various devices running on a single platform. Like Spotify app - switch the device and you can continue listening on your phone and vice versa. Simple and convenient. Such minor things are the stuff that make Apple's ecosystem attractive. With more cloud-based services, the ability to continue editing or reading your document just but switching to another device is cool.

MS is already have that basically in their apps, so they won't even need probably a specialized OS for phones but who knows. Ecosystem is the future.

And regarding emulation as long as performance is fine, the regular user won't even care and know if it is run natively or via emulator. Like, how many people care whether Xbox 360 games run natively or via emulation on Xbox One? Zero. It is all about how it is integrated with other systems and how good it is.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

What I mean is the seamless integration between various devices running on a single platform. Like Spotify app - switch the device and you can continue listening on your phone and vice versa. Simple and convenient. Such minor things are the stuff that make Apple's ecosystem attractive. With more cloud-based services, the ability to continue editing or reading your document just but switching to another device is cool.

I'm asking what "Windows 10 features" actually bring to the table here - beside it being 'cool'. I mean, you can do that now - why do you think you need a desktop OS on your phone, with all the inherent complexity that brings?

And regarding emulation as long as performance is fine, the regular user won't even care and know if it is run natively or via emulator. Like, how many people care whether Xbox 360 games run natively or via emulation on Xbox One? Zero. It is all about how it is integrated with other systems and how good it is.

If people 'won't care', then what benefit is there? Why would this succeed when so few Android phone manufactures can reliably turn a sizable profit each year?

I mean, this isn't exactly ancient history. There were many, but a primary reason MS failed in the phone space (and Apple's success) and led to perhaps it's most significant upheaval in the company's history was completely missing that a focused user experience that was based around the form factor of the platform is pretty damned paramount to user adoption.

I mean, yeah - "it's all about how it's integrated with other systems and how good it is" well tbf, no shit - "This might succeed if it's really good". There is little reason to give MS the benefit of the doubt in that regard when they have a long track record of failure in these areas. This isn't 'holding a grudge', it's a thread trying to analyze future developments, and not taking in to consideration past history is pretty odd.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I'm asking what "Windows 10 features" actually bring to the table here - beside it being 'cool'. I mean, you can do that now - why do you think you need a desktop OS on your phone, with all the inherent complexity that brings?

Why do you assume that it should be a desktop OS? Why are you thinking in absolutes?

If people 'won't care', then what benefit is there? Why would this succeed when so few Android phone manufactures can reliably turn a sizable profit each year?

People won't care about whether it is running natively or via emulation. But people will care if their Windows apps will start working on mobile phones - when adapted to mobiles of course. Though it is a fair point that the modern apps - ported to Android and iOS are able to synchronize already. Cloud makes the things seamless already.

I mean, this isn't exactly ancient history. There were many, but a primary reason MS failed in the phone space (and Apple's success) and led to perhaps it's most significant upheaval in the company's history was completely missing that a focused user experience that was based around the form factor of the platform is pretty damned paramount to user adoption.

I mean, yeah - "it's all about how it's integrated with other systems and how good it is" well tbf, no shit - "This might succeed if it's really good". There is little reason to give MS the benefit of the doubt in that regard when they have a long track record of failure in these areas. This isn't 'holding a grudge', it's a thread trying to analyze future developments, and not taking in to consideration past history is pretty odd.

The main reason of WP failure was the lack of apps.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Why do you assume that it should be a desktop OS? Why are you thinking in absolutes?

Then what point does it being Windows10 even mean? We already have examples of this. Windows Phone had a "Windows kernel", in fact this 'reboot' of Windows Phone 10 from 8.1 and the delays this brought (and fracturing an already small developer base) ultimately doomed the platform.

People won't care about whether it is running natively or via emulation. But people will care if their Windows apps will start working on mobile phones - when adapted to mobiles of course.

So, the basic premise of Windows phone. Which as you know, failed spectacularly. I mean where have you been for the past decade? You're literally describing the project plan of Windows 10 mobile for pete's sake:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_Mobile

Windows 10 Mobile aimed to provide greater consistency with its counterpart for PCs, including more extensive synchronization of content, Universal Windows Platform apps, as well as the capability, on supported hardware, to connect devices to an external display and use a desktop interface with mouse and keyboard input support (reminiscent of Windows on PCs).

The main reason of WP failure was the lack of apps.

...because there was little impetus amongst developers to port apps to a tiny userbase. There was a tiny userbase because it didn't bring nearly enough to the table to present a compelling alternative. Your suggestion now is that they repeat that approach, but this time make it like, good.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Then what point does it being Windows10 even mean? We already have examples of this. Windows Phone had a "Windows kernel", in fact this 'reboot' of Windows Phone 10 from 8.1 and the delays this brought (and fracturing an already small developer base) ultimately doomed the platform.

So, the basic premise of Windows phone. Which as you know, failed spectacularly. I mean where have you been for the past decade? You're literally describing the project plan of Windows 10 mobile for pete's sake:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_Mobile

...because there was little impetus amongst developers to port apps to a tiny userbase. There was a tiny userbase because it didn't bring nearly enough to the table to present a compelling alternative. Your suggestion now is that they repeat that approach, but this time make it like, good.

Aside that, some companies and people hated Windows so they did not port their apps. And even without that MS did not try hard. Just like with Xbox - it did not take it seriously. Yes, I believe their potential in Windows Phones if it's done right and not like Windows Phone 7->8->10 and whatever. And I think in the future something will happen.When the time is right.

I am waiting for Microsoft Windows as a service though.

 

[thicc_gaf]

I am waiting for Microsoft Windows as a service though.

Does it technically count as a service right now since you can kinda get W10 for free and don't need to activate it (if you don't mind the pop-up reminders)?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Does it technically count as a service right now since you can kinda get W10 for free and don't need to activate it (if you don't mind the pop-up reminders)?

It would be more Windows as a gift
I do actually wonder why it is allowed at all. Probably because consumer market is not that profitable anyway?

 

[BillSpencer]

It would be more Windows as a gift
I do actually wonder why it is allowed at all. Probably because consumer market is not that profitable anyway?

Because Windows 10 is adware; even if you buy the professional version it has advertisements in the start menu. Also it collects and markets your telemetry, browsing history as well as other personal (private?) data. With every update it hopes that you forget to disable the default collection, which allows it to collect every word you type, every sound recorded, website visited, filenames, and much more.

 

[Kaotik]

Because Windows 10 is adware; even if you buy the professional version it has advertisements in the start menu. Also it collects and markets your telemetry, browsing history as well as other personal (private?) data. With every update it hopes that you forget to disable the default collection, which allows it to collect every word you type, every sound recorded, website visited, filenames, and much more.

What they collect and share depends on your settings, same goes for showing advertisements (actually app suggestions).
That list of yours of things "they collect" is just BS and they even offer an app which shows you exactly what is sent to MS.

 

[BillSpencer]

What they collect and share depends on your settings, same goes for showing advertisements (actually app suggestions).
That list of yours of things "they collect" is just BS and they even offer an app which shows you exactly what is sent to MS.

this is getting off topic but I don't expect most windows users to actually understand what they agreed upon, no offence:

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...s-what-data-windows-10-collects-from-you.html

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/data-collection-windows-december2019

• Browser activity, including browsing history and search terms in Microsoft browsers.

• Samples of the content you type, write, or dictate on the device.
• Details about status of transcribing input into text.

• App activity, such as which apps are launched.
• Operating system and services usage.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Because Windows 10 is adware; even if you buy the professional version it has advertisements in the start menu. Also it collects and markets your telemetry, browsing history as well as other personal (private?) data. With every update it hopes that you forget to disable the default collection, which allows it to collect every word you type, every sound recorded, website visited, filenames, and much more.

How spooky. Good thing that Apple and Google do not collect your data...Oh, wait.

 

[thicc_gaf]

How spooky. Good thing that Apple and Google do not collect your data...Oh, wait.

Lol yep, or worst of all: Facebook.

 

[SlmDnk]

You guys start early... far too early.

I'd say four years after the release of current generation would make more sense.

 

[BillSpencer]

You guys start early... far too early.

I'd say four years after the release of current generation would make more sense.

By that time we already have the PS5 Pro for about a year ^_^

 

[eastmen]

If AMD, does that mean K12 is back? I always thought it was disappointing that AMD shelved it. And if Nvidia, they aren't hanging around in designing arm/nvidia parts

Do you think there's a chance we see the pro x 2 in 2021? Maybe releasing alongside the rumoured major windows update that's coming next year?


It's an exciting time in the industry, it really feels like 2020 was an inflection point in personal computing and gaming with different processor architectures becoming viable, and game pass really finding its footing this year, and the full roll out of xCloud is almost here. Sonys rumoured game pass competitor, Luna, Stadia. Very exciting time.

I dunno , surface laptop and pro are getting refreshes early next year. The pro is just a drop in of a newer better performing intel chip , the laptop is a slight redesign but mostly to fix screen cracking issues and thermal issues . I think we will see a new amd x64 chip in there however. I think the end of the year is a drop in of a new intel chip for the book and a new module for the hub. I think the ear buds will get updated also finally with nfc and the same will go for the duo. Of course any of these can slip. If you think its too soon for new ear buds remember the original ones were delayed about 6 months from fall of 2019 into spring of 2020 I believe.

 

[eastmen]

I see.


But I don't think it is prohibited? If they are able to develop something better it is basically the example of competition no? Like if I use wood wheel for my carriage, and then create a rubber tire for the wheel, get some wheel production facilities too to have a more convenient wheel design for the rubber - it will become better a wheel, but there is not thing wrong if I use those carriages for myself. It doesn't mean I still have to order old wood wheels from third-party for that.


Well if their product is worse than the one that Apple proposes - integrated with all other systems - I don't think it is a problem as for the end consumer it is even better. By that logic if you use some tool, you cannot make it better for yourself only.

The issue becomes a bigger problem as you absorb all of your product line.

Look at it this way. IF i make fidget spinners and Apple sells mine and all my data of performance flows through apple to get to me . Apple then has all the information on how to make a better fidget spinner thanks to my product. They know how many times my spinner will spin , how many times a person does a certain trick with it . Lets say it has programable rgb then apple gets to see what the most popular color combinations are and so on and so forth . All this time apple is getting my data and getting 30% of my annual sales. Then apple takes that money and takes all the information I gathered and uses it to make their fidget spinner. Maybe their spinner doesn't do as well but apple is known to make "apple quality" products and apple is funding thier fidget spinners with profits off my fidget spinner. Anytime I make a change using the data I gather , apple is privy to the same information as I am plus sees the changes I made. Apple is a huge company and starts to bundle their fidget spinners with their popular products to enable more features. Eventually I go out of business and apple now has the fidget spinner market.

Apple will continue to do this and get sued by the doj and get broken up.

Like i said remember MS got in trouble for bundling a browser with their OS. They weren't charging netscape 30% for the privilege being on its store while taking netscapes data to create a better Internet explorer while using that 30% to drive them out of business

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Look at it this way. IF i make fidget spinners and Apple sells mine and all my data of performance flows through apple to get to me . Apple then has all the information on how to make a better fidget spinner thanks to my product. They know how many times my spinner will spin , how many times a person does a certain trick with it . Lets say it has programable rgb then apple gets to see what the most popular color combinations are and so on and so forth . All this time apple is getting my data and getting 30% of my annual sales. Then apple takes that money and takes all the information I gathered and uses it to make their fidget spinner. Maybe their spinner doesn't do as well but apple is known to make "apple quality" products and apple is funding thier fidget spinners with profits off my fidget spinner. Anytime I make a change using the data I gather , apple is privy to the same information as I am plus sees the changes I made. Apple is a huge company and starts to bundle their fidget spinners with their popular products to enable more features. Eventually I go out of business and apple now has the fidget spinner market.

Oh, so basically uses the data it aggregated from the items sold in their store to create a better version? Then it is a huge issue, then I agree. But it technically can be applied to almost any platform holder that has the shop? Or only for those who do produce. similar stuff?

Apple will continue to do this and get sued by the doj and get broken up.

But what are the drawbacks of being broken up? Aside losing the market cap. Will it lead to other devices using MacOs? Or for example Apple OS Corp. will have to purchase stuff from Apple Hardware Corp. or something?

Like i said remember MS got in trouble for bundling a browser with their OS. They weren't charging netscape 30% for the privilege being on its store while taking netscapes data to create a better Internet explorer while using that 30% to drive them out of business

But how did they use Netscape's data? I mean now you can create any browser you want - just take the engine and create your own Chromium for example.
Also interesting how MS is never involved in all those suits - always the quartet of Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Google.

 

[eastmen]

Oh, so basically uses the data it aggregated from the items sold in their store to create a better version? Then it is a huge issue, then I agree. But it technically can be applied to almost any platform holder that has the shop? Or only for those who do produce. similar stuff?

All data goes through the iphone since the app runs on the iphone. So apple should be able to see everything

But what are the drawbacks of being broken up? Aside losing the market cap. Will it lead to other devices using MacOs? Or for example Apple OS Corp. will have to purchase stuff from Apple Hardware Corp. or something?

Depends on how they are broken up. If they are broken up where thier hardware division is removed from the software and ios is opened like android it could change the market almost over night.

Apple was able to take the mp3 player market because of the rulings on microsofts anti trust case. MS wasn't able to launch their own dedicated mp3 for fear of retaliation from the doj and so they instead launched plays for sure which didn't go anywhere. We know that apple was able to create a monopoly over the mp3 market and made itunes a dominate store for music purchasing locking in tens of millions into the eccosystem. Then when the iphone came out and failed they were able to reduce cost and use their itunes dominance to bring peoplle into the ios store since all the music purchases moved over.

Ecosystem is now a huge deal and being able to carry over purchases will sway a user from one device over the other or simply keep them buyin gthe same device.

But how did they use Netscape's data? I mean now you can create any browser you want - just take the engine and create your own Chromium for example.
Also interesting how MS is never involved in all those suits - always the quartet of Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Google.

Back in the day MS didn't have a way to track netscapes data. Thats my point. Back in the 90s when the IE vs Netscape browser war happened MS didn't have that ability. They were just able to make it the default browser and dump money from their monopoly in OS sales to keep improving on IE .

Apple now has all data feed through them and hosts / distributes and gets a kick back on all sales from their store. You can't be on IOS unless you pay Apple and its not a one size fits all. Some companies are big enough and market dominate enough that they can get around the % cut. But even for some big companies that competed against apple that wasn't always the case. For a long time (And it may still happen) you can't buy a book on kindle or audible on IOS but you could on windows phone and android. For IOS because they wanted 30% of every sale through those apps you would have to go to amazon through a browser to purchase the book and it would then show up as a purchased item in your ios audible or kindle app and you could then download and read / listen too it.

For someone like say amazon , i would assume they would break it up by region and then also split off the digital offerings into their own companies. Thats imo.

MS stays clear of things now because the only market dominance they have is in personal computers which is now really a stagnet market and they still have apple and google as competitors. Their surface line is also small compared to dell and hp and others

Bing is a second place search engine
Xbox is a third place game device
Edge just moved to chroimum but i think is a third place browser now
Office is first place office suite but there are alternatives like google docs
Teams is new and is growing fast so we will see what happens there.

But MS still butts up against anti trust laws. I think europe keeps dragging them back in when they need more money

 

[PSman1700]

Apple will continue to do this and get sued by the doj and get broken up.

Apple will just consume everything in its path, nothing can stop them now.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

For someone like say amazon , i would assume they would break it up by region and then also split off the digital offerings into their own companies. Thats imo.

And got purchased by Tencent, who has no obligations to EU or USA.