ChuckeRearmed
Regular
I wonder what's their market will be, considering that most of the big companies seems to be moving towards in-house solutions. Maybe they will work with Amazon?
Sony PS6, Microsoft neXt Series - 10th gen console speculation [2020]
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
BillSpencer
Regular
I really really hope Nvidia does not get to buy Arm:
Imagine independent reviewers in 2024 mentioning that the Apple A18 wins most benchmarks against Tegra 2K24?
Nvidia would threaten them with denying review samples in the future if the reviewers don't focus enough on the strengths of the Tegra2K24 which only shows in very few applications.
They actually did this last week, or at least they tried. You don't want such a company having ARM
Imagine independent reviewers in 2024 mentioning that the Apple A18 wins most benchmarks against Tegra 2K24?
Nvidia would threaten them with denying review samples in the future if the reviewers don't focus enough on the strengths of the Tegra2K24 which only shows in very few applications.
They actually did this last week, or at least they tried. You don't want such a company having ARM
This whole alternative architecture discussion has really gotten me on a tangent!
Apparently, Microsoft has been working on its own custom processor architecture since 2010! It started as a research project with a couple of people but in 2018 the team working on it had 'dozens to hundreds of engineers spanning continents'. Its called the Explicit data graph execution, or EDGE architecture. The architecture is inherently scalable, so you could have a single core in some smart device and hundreds to thousands in a desktop computer. They have already demonstrated windows 10 running on an FPGA of the CPU 'E2' design, (below) which they showed in 2018. After this they scrubbed the Microsoft website of a large portion of the information about it. A Microsoft spokesperson said in the same year that the E2 cpu was just a research project and that they had no plans to commercialise it.
So maybe this is Microsoft big play? Their own inherently scalable cpu architecture? They have been working on it since 2010, with the number of engineers ranging from the dozens to hundreds, and have fully ported windows 10, .net, the llvm compiler and some linux distros to the processor architecture. Seems a ton of work for just a research project!
https://www.theregister.com/2018/06...campaign=Feed%3A+co%2FtyqN+%28The+Register%29
Apparently, Microsoft has been working on its own custom processor architecture since 2010! It started as a research project with a couple of people but in 2018 the team working on it had 'dozens to hundreds of engineers spanning continents'. Its called the Explicit data graph execution, or EDGE architecture. The architecture is inherently scalable, so you could have a single core in some smart device and hundreds to thousands in a desktop computer. They have already demonstrated windows 10 running on an FPGA of the CPU 'E2' design, (below) which they showed in 2018. After this they scrubbed the Microsoft website of a large portion of the information about it. A Microsoft spokesperson said in the same year that the E2 cpu was just a research project and that they had no plans to commercialise it.
So maybe this is Microsoft big play? Their own inherently scalable cpu architecture? They have been working on it since 2010, with the number of engineers ranging from the dozens to hundreds, and have fully ported windows 10, .net, the llvm compiler and some linux distros to the processor architecture. Seems a ton of work for just a research project!
https://www.theregister.com/2018/06...campaign=Feed%3A+co%2FtyqN+%28The+Register%29
ARM Doesnt work that way,
When a company goes to arm what they are getting is a set of blueprints for parts of CPUs affectively, ARM doesn't actually sell any physical products to anyone, they just license the design of different processors.
BillSpencer
Regular
Nvidia works that way.
It would make a lot more sense for MS to buy arm; in a few years intel will be really far behind, AMD as well. X86 is just old shit at this point; MS wants windows and they could own 90% of the entire computing market if everybody has to license the IP from MS
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
In addition to licensing reference designs ARM also licence the IP for the ISA. This is the type of licence that Apple has.
cheapchips
Veteran
If we're talking neXtbox, that doesn't matter for emulation of Series boxes.
If they offer a x86 emulation path for easy cross platform next gen development then it gets a bit weird.
Obviously it has implications on its use in servers, but that's another topic all together.
ChuckeRearmed
Regular
At this point I don't think MS would find any use for ARM. Unlike AMD, Nvidia or Intel it does not specialize in hardware. Not to mention if they really was doing something on their own - just like with Apple - they would probably be able to come up with some solution by now.
I wonder when Apple started the development of their A1 chips though. Also it remains to be seen if Google or AWS will also go with their in house ARM solutions for something.
BillSpencer
Regular
Getting money from they entire industry every time somebody sells a single device?
ChuckeRearmed
Regular
Companies do not purchase anything just to get the money from it - they purchase something that would align with their business interests.
BillSpencer
Regular
I am pretty sure that getting money is MS' business interests
They already have higher profits from iOS gaming (percentages from appstore (in-app) purchases) than MS with their entire xbox ecosystem.
Last edited:
ChuckeRearmed
Regular
No, it doesn't work that way. Any corporate purchase requires reasoning and such scale of investment is not done for - let's gain the profit from selling the licenses. (anecdotally that logic is the one that racketeers use lol). Owning ARM does nothing for MS. There are checks and balances between companies and such purchases does not do favors for MS among other companies because MS is a platform owner.
You seems to be at odds with MS or something though. In each your post you are trying to disparage MS.
BillSpencer
Regular
MS only makes Xbox and Surface. So having ARM and the ability to decide its roadmap does nothing for them?
the licenses would bring in more money than their own hardware products, sure, but it could be seen as a nice bonus then
the licenses would bring in more money than their own hardware products, sure, but it could be seen as a nice bonus then
Last edited:
ChuckeRearmed
Regular
Yes, because MS is not a hardware provider. It is a completely different market - hardware market - and MS is not a hardware provider. MS is fine with their own solutions, but it does not need to be directly involved in the core hardware market itself - they don't need to sell the hardware itself.
What hardware company MS might purchase in the future is - probably - Nokia though, because MS is going into Internet provider infrastructure direction (like partnership with SpaceX for example). Considering that now we know that MS develops its own custom ARM solution - their cooperation with AMD might be fruitful as Nvidia bought ARM, so AMD's answer might cooperation with MS. And if Intel will fall, then AWS might purchase it
I personally want MS to develop their Android and WSL support in Windows and then in the future provide support for such apps in Surface. Probably introduce new Surface Phone or something - granted in the future we can have almost laptop performance in the mobile form-factor phones.
P.S. One interesting power dynamic though is that Nintendo went with Nvidia route (and now ARM), while MS and Sony went with AMD.
Last edited:
BillSpencer
Regular
What you personally want, and what MS is actually doing is not necessarily the same, I hope you have the ability to understand that.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...signing-its-own-chips-for-servers-surface-pcs
I even forgot about their azure platform
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...signing-its-own-chips-for-servers-surface-pcs
I even forgot about their azure platform
ChuckeRearmed
Regular
I perfectly able to separate what I hope and what MS will do. That's why I am saying that MS doesn't need to purchase ARM. It is all about business needs. I hope you are able to understand that too.
64bit emulation has been running internally for microsoft since the surface pro x launch. The issue is that MS doesn't design their own chips so they don't get a huge say in what qualcom does.
Trust me the apple making their own chips is what's going to get them broken up along with their store shananigans
