RAGE : It Deserves its own thread now!

[user542745831]

Ah, ok, thank you.

But actually they don't show multiplatform, they only show PC . And the stuff you see is basically what you can see in the official trailer (with much better (HD) quality).

No moaning though, so thank you anyway .

 

[Kittonwy]

What? They have scared many buyers off because of what? Because there have been some confusing tech reports?

Im sure that less than 0,01% of the potential buyers of this game cares about the mess and confusing surrounding the tech side of this game, to such a point that they are "scared off" from buying the product.

Get a grip on reality. The amount of people that care about this "mess", and feel that ID needs to come clean is few, its a few fanboys and some tech geeks at best. This "mess" will have no significant impact on sales whatsoever.

Not sure if ID has the fanbase they once have, this might be great tech, it might not, unless they have an unlimited budget they might need to start showing their stuff, Tech 5 might or might not be a great suite of tools but we're already three years into the console cycle, so I'm not sure whether developers and publishers are willing to just switch over to ID tools.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The main aspect of Id Tech 5 is the way the "virtualization of textures", nothing that couldn't be implemented in existing engines independently of ID Software. Just like very few out there have bothered with deferred rendering, it is starting to actually be considered for various games.

Plus we're already starting to look at next-gen with development/ports for Larrabee. Any decent company is always doing R&D, and the current R&D is starting to head into next-gen tech.

 

[Richard]

But actually they don't show multiplatform, they only show PC .

They've showed Rage running on all four platforms the game will launch for to journalists before. Running side-by-side even. If you do a search here you'll find links.

Not sure if ID has the fanbase they once have, this might be great tech, it might not, unless they have an unlimited budget they might need to start showing their stuff, Tech 5 might or might not be a great suite of tools but we're already three years into the console cycle, so I'm not sure whether developers and publishers are willing to just switch over to ID tools.

id has been showing their engine to prospective licensees since at least E3 2007 (closed doors, etc.). The last word on this that I've read (somewhere can't find it now) is that there's a few companies working with id Tech 5 but no official announcements yet.

The main aspect of Id Tech 5 is the way the "virtualization of textures", nothing that couldn't be implemented in existing engines independently of ID Software. Just like very few out there have bothered with deferred rendering, it is starting to actually be considered for various games.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Obviously you can implement any technology on any engine baseline. Having said that, id has been working on MT since 2004 (and JC mulling the tech since 2000) so there's a lot of cumulative experience and problem solving that go with it. There's a reason why even though many homebrew engines copied D3 and had normal-maps + stencil shadows before D3 even shipped, they were never licensed for AAA titles.

Plus we're already starting to look at next-gen with development/ports for Larrabee. Any decent company is always doing R&D, and the current R&D is starting to head into next-gen tech.

The latest word is that it will be 2012 before new consoles launch. They are now ruling inovation - unfortunately. And I don't know how much influence the Wii lesson is going to have on those. Anyway, id is already working on id Tech 5+ and id Tech 6 so I think they're covering that.

It does contrast greatly with UE3 which had the perfect feature-set at the perfect time!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Under the current economy only Nintendo can easily afford a new launch in 2010. But they're making so much money with the Wii that they aren't in any hurry either.

 

[Nano]

They are now ruling inovation - unfortunately.

Probably not quite as unfortunate as one may perceive.

Standards (and subsequently standard setting) can also have a positive impact, even if in a fixed form...

Imo, its a bit like a coin, always two interesting sides.

And I don't know how much influence the Wii lesson is going to have on those.

I think it may be the end of making a significant loss on h/w units. To what extent this affects future tech is to be seen.

 

[Richard]

Probably not quite as unfortunate as one may perceive.

Standards (and subsequently standard setting) can also have a positive impact, even if in a fixed form...

Imo, its a bit like a coin, always two interesting sides.

I agree that a stable platform can have a positive impact. In the case of whether id Tech 5 is outdated which Ether_Snake was alluding to, however, moving the innovation yardstick over to consoles means id Tech 5 has longer legs than in previous generations. That's unfortunate because it means less incentive to move the goal posts; that Crysis did, I wonder how much graphical innovation Crysis 2 will bring if it can't target next-gen consoles due to timing.

 

[Nano]

I agree that a stable platform can have a positive impact. In the case of whether id Tech 5 is outdated which Ether_Snake was alluding to, however, moving the innovation yardstick over to consoles means id Tech 5 has longer legs than in previous generations. That's unfortunate because it means less incentive to move the goal posts; that Crysis did, I wonder how much graphical innovation Crysis 2 will bring if it can't target next-gen consoles due to timing.

I like the idea how consoles can influence developers to optimize code and resources and on some level; re-thinking algorithms to get the very most out of the set architecture. I also have a feeling PS3 development might double up as experience for much speculated next gen architectures that could see many CPUs comprising extremely parallel vector units.

Whilst I do have a thing about embedded systems and the challenge of working with limitations, I'll always hope for there to be PC titles to move the goal post significantly. Talking Crysis 2, I've been expecting that to be one of them. I'm still baffled by Cevat Yerli's statement last year "PS4 will drive all our research", which is strange because about the only thing I'd imagine anyone knows right now is that it will almost certainly run on a successor to the PS3 Cell BE. And I wonder if Crysis 2 will be in the mix.

On the topic of Rage and id Tech 5, even though the current game (Rage) isn't set out to push hardware to its limits, I feel there's a possibility tech 5's potential might be underestimated at the current time. Carmack seemed pretty confident that Doom 4 would look several times better as well as taking better advantage of the latest PCs seeing as there will be a much bigger gap.

 

[slapnutz]

I agree that a stable platform can have a positive impact. In the case of whether id Tech 5 is outdated which Ether_Snake was alluding to, however, moving the innovation yardstick over to consoles means id Tech 5 has longer legs than in previous generations. That's unfortunate because it means less incentive to move the goal posts; that Crysis did, I wonder how much graphical innovation Crysis 2 will bring if it can't target next-gen consoles due to timing.

I guess one way to predict it is look into the past.

I mean, what was the most graphically impressive game out on the PC before the Xbox360 Launch date?

(i dont actually know)

 

[Nano]

Half-life 2, Doom 3 and Far Cry in 2004.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Half-life 2, Doom 3 and Far Cry in 2004.

I think FEAR is a contender for the top position. There was Quake 4 too which obviously exceeded Doom 3.

 

[Ether_Snake]

On the topic of Rage and id Tech 5, even though the current game (Rage) isn't set out to push hardware to its limits, I feel there's a possibility tech 5's potential might be underestimated at the current time. Carmack seemed pretty confident that Doom 4 would look several times better as well as taking better advantage of the latest PCs seeing as there will be a much bigger gap.

From my understanding, Carmack's statements about Doom 4 were related to the fact that the game would be less open, which means they have more room for things like higher texture resolution than Rage, more texture maps for more complex shaders, and good use of dynamic lighting (from my understanding Rage has a lot of baked lighting effects).

I'm tired right now, but I remember having thought of a more convincing argument over why Doom 4 would look better, but I forget!

I'm really hyped about Id Tech 5 actually, I tried to push for something similar at work but nothing's budging so far. Like John said, the fear of unconstrained development time is always there when it comes to developing tools and new tech, so no one wants to bother and risk spending time on texture virtualization. Especially when you gotta keep shareholders happy, and release games on time. It plays against us in the end.

Sadly, this rush also causes a lot of issues management-wise, so the time you inevitably waste due to the impact of rushed planning could have been used to make better tech that actually allows you to raise the quality and facilitate development. I wish the talented people like John didn't all work in independent studios, but maybe there's a logical reason there

 

[slapnutz]

From my understanding, Carmack's statements about Doom 4 were related to the fact that the game would be less open, which means they have more room for things like higher texture resolution than Rage, more texture maps for more complex shaders, and good use of dynamic lighting (from my understanding Rage has a lot of baked lighting effects).

I'm tired right now, but I remember having thought of a more convincing argument over why Doom 4 would look better, but I forget!
...

Well the main reason (according to JC) for the detail increase in Doom4 compared to Rage is due the fact that Doom4 is designed to be run at 30fps whilst Rage is 60fps.

The fact that Doom 4 would also have smaller areas relative to Rage doesnt hurt either. (since we're pretty sure Doom4 isnt going to be an open world game)

 

[Richard]

The fact that Doom 4 would also have smaller areas relative to Rage doesnt hurt either. (since we're pretty sure Doom4 isnt going to be an open world game)

Are we? The initial press released talked about bringing the franchise to Earth.

 

[Nano]

Yes, it was mainly down to frame-rate (and on top of that you can bet 'technical goals'). I'm not convinced they'll want to go for a corridor shooter with Doom 4 seeing as the technology allows for so much more now.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Don't forget they are planning to scale Doom 4 to high end PC's as well while RAGE PC isn't supposed to hold any graphical advantages over its console counterparts (apart from image quality). So Doom 4 on PC has a raw power advantage in terms of the platform its running on over RAGE regardless of what platform its on.

 

[slapnutz]

Are we? The initial press released talked about bringing the franchise to Earth.

Although not certain, it wouldnt really make sense. I mean Rage is already their openworld game and dont think it might fit the style.

I'm predicting maybe HL Ep2 level of openess. Not like Far Cry 2 (or even Far Cry 1) level. Just a guess though.

 

[Rangers]

Well the main reason (according to JC) for the detail increase in Doom4 compared to Rage is due the fact that Doom4 is designed to be run at 30fps whilst Rage is 60fps.

The fact that Doom 4 would also have smaller areas relative to Rage doesnt hurt either. (since we're pretty sure Doom4 isnt going to be an open world game)

Yes, he actually said that due to the 30 vs 60 difference Doom 4 would have "3X the force" to apply to graphics. Considering Rage already looks great..

 

[Nano]

Although not certain, it wouldnt really make sense. I mean Rage is already their openworld game and dont think it might fit the style.

I'm predicting maybe HL Ep2 level of openess. Not like Far Cry 2 (or even Far Cry 1) level. Just a guess though.

Doom could do with a change in environment. HL2 Ep2 size openness as you suggested would be pretty good for gameplay/graphics just from what I can imagine. Sanbox type of open probably wouldn't make too much sense, but either way I'm excited to see where id will take the franchise, but I'm betting that won't be for a long, long time.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Doom 2 was a pretty open world game though by the standards of the time. And wasn't that supposed to be set on Earth too?