Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]
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most seem happy enough at 6tf.
be hard now to convince people that it can only be that due to using jaguar, regardless if that's the facts.
they will just see it as MS being cheap like they did with the xo. I personally don't believe that.
I'm not ruling out jaguar at all. Just saying it's a much harder sell for them.
edit : Is jaguar what most people here are expecting, and at what sort of frequency? Personality I swing from cat to zen and back again every time I think about it.
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I hope MS's engineers haven't been considering the expectations of people who are misinformed/willfully ignorant to that degree while designing Scorpio. That second part, about the XBOne design being the result of MS "being cheap" just about made my head explode it was so completely contrary to reality.
I dont think it is going to be Zen. But it isn't going to be Jaguar either, Phil Spencer clearly said that in this interview:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-head-phil-spencer-talks-scorpio-ps4-pro-4k-re/1100-6444198/
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-head-phil-spencer-talks-scorpio-ps4-pro-4k-re/1100-6444198/
Where? I can't find it.
This is the quote that got the net flustered when it came out, you can read almost any possibility in it really.
Phil S said:
I can't decode how he's speaking, it's like he's forced to say -something- but doesn't want any critical info to actually come out this early....
[dramatization] "our design was meant to be something we wanted to achieve with the goal of having a design we could be in a position to get our team working on something we could be proud by asking developers what the specs of a better system than what could allow our technology at the time for the future of that technology in the context of our team's capabilities.... We are confident that goal is a good one".
Meaning... no Jaguar?
[dramatization] "our design was meant to be something we wanted to achieve with the goal of having a design we could be in a position to get our team working on something we could be proud by asking developers what the specs of a better system than what could allow our technology at the time for the future of that technology in the context of our team's capabilities.... We are confident that goal is a good one".
Meaning... no Jaguar?
yea, I've heard it many times, went cheap with ddr3 & esram.
in the end, they'll put in what they could at that price.
but there is a level of expectations out there, year later with just bigger gpu and more memory at x amount more money, where people already believe jaguar was already too weak to begin with years before.
that's why I say it's a harder sell for them. Not impossible but definitely harder.
@MrFox lots of people interpreted that to mean no jaguar therefore zen. I didn't read it that way, for me it's not giving any indication
it's that small proportion of the market that they are trying to sell the scorpio to.
that's why especially with jaguar they would need to prove it upfront as much as possible. Last thing they need with it is for it to get of to a relativity slow start.
Another wild speculation for not being Jaguar is from the credible leak of PS4 Pro: Sony had another configuration possible, 5.5TF and a better CPU, but they dismissed it for not meeting their price/date goal. Meaning a better choice than Jaguar is possibly available to MS. But I'm thinking Sony wanted perfect binary compatibility, so that "better" choice would probably not have been a completely new arch, maybe just a higher clock?
I think it would be silly to rule anything out this early in the phase, I think that's where we sit.edit : Is jaguar what most people here are expecting, and at what sort of frequency? Personality I swing from cat to zen and back again every time I think about it.
The only things we can be sure that is more than just speculation are
a) the specs released by Phil himself
b) the amount of RAM is greater than 8GB
Anything else at this point in time is purely speculation.
No information out there today is so compelling that I would start leaning in favour of something.
that's exactly what I'm asking, speculation. Because as you said have little to go on.
forgot about that. Don't know much about rumour apart from it was bit more powerful. What that meant cpu wise no idea, could've just been bigger more expensive gpu?
In context of what was said in other interviews it makes sense. MS had a design proposal from AMD that featured similar specs to what ended up in PS4Pro that could have been delivered in the same time frame but MS passed in favor of the Scorpio-spec which could only be delivered later. There's nothing I can see in the statement that definitively says this means no Jaguar. Could mean CPU is the same and just GPU and memory are higher spec. Could mean CPU is clocked higher. Both fit the statement.
It wasn't cheaper. It was based on them designing for 8GB first, to enable background apps to run simultaneously with games, before they knew 8GB of GDDR5 was possible. Because they thought DDR3 was the only possible choice, the on-chip ESRAM was necessary to add additional bandwidth. The space on the chip that this took up, in addition to the space the Kinect processing logic took up (which was not huge, but not zero either) was space that could have been used for more CUs.
It wasn't MS being cheap, it was MS focusing on XBOne being the "all-in-one entertainment device" at the expense of it's gaming performance, a mistake that I trust they won't make again.
Well, I am non native, unlike Shifty and many others, so I might be mistaken, but I think he is outright saying that the CPU isn't going to be Jaguar, and maybe the GPU isn't going like the AMD GPUs of this year (it could inherit Vega and PS4 Pro most revolutionary features, though). Quoting @turkey post here:
We'd looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I'd say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought--with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year--that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different.
If you isolate the bolded part..., plus what @mr. Fox suggests might be a bit wild and it's pure speculation now, but who knows.
It's not clear what is different about the GPU, CPU or memory. Keeping in mind that this was a spoken interview, it just might have been verbal shorthand to say "GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year" instead of "GPU spec, CPU spec, memory spec that was here this year.
This is pretty much what I could gather from that statement as well. Well written, I couldn't put this into words at the time.
oh okay.
If we're talking gut instinct, and speculation, I'd lean towards not Zen. But that's as far as I'd lean. I definitely think when ExecuteIndirect/VK_NVX_device_generated_commands/Other names takes off, I think it'll provide the current generation of consoles a lot of breathing room.
When things first started, a lot of focus has been on graphics, there was a lot of CPU, and developers were focused on maximizing that GPU. But now that they are doing very well there, they've shifted that bottleneck a bit, and now they need to start to work on freeing that up as well.
I think while it would be cool to have this massive CPU, the question I'd ask is why. What do we need it for, what trends in gaming today require that massive CPU. And is that trend positive enough to really commit to forcing customers to pay more? Consoles will never exceed 60fps (exception on VR), so... with Zen aren't we really over committing resources to something that will never be fully leveraged? Are we really committed to VR?
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