Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[mrcorbo]

can see why you think that, I just don't agree.
I think he's trying to get across that there will be games that can take advantage of the power by using the pc builds (assets etc) of games.
pc builds have higher quality assets etc, but still essentially same game. Doesn't have to mean uwp games.

do wonder if xo and Scorpio will get the ability to run uwp games in future though, and the implications of that.

I believe this is the end-game for MS. They are going to use their experience putting PC games on the UWP platform to identify how that platform needs to develop going forward to make it suitable to eventually be the primary platform for Xbox games as well.

 

[mpg1]

can see why you think that, I just don't agree.
I think he's trying to get across that there will be games that can take advantage of the power by using the pc builds (assets etc) of games.
pc builds have higher quality assets etc, but still essentially same game. Doesn't have to mean uwp games.

do wonder if xo and Scorpio will get the ability to run uwp games in future though, and the implications of that.

Let's take Mass Effect: Andromeda. It sounds like from those tweets a developer could either modify/patch the XBO version OR use an optimized PC build for the Scorpio version.

 

[mpg1]

I believe this is the end-game for MS. They are going to use their experience putting PC games on the UWP platform to identify how that platform needs to develop going forward to make it suitable to eventually be the primary platform for Xbox games as well.

Yeah thats exactly why you are seeing Forza Apex and Halo 5 Forge on PC. Not full games but enough for Microsoft studios to get an idea of performance.

 

[Jay]

I believe this is the end-game for MS. They are going to use their experience putting PC games on the UWP platform to identify how that platform needs to develop going forward to make it suitable to eventually be the primary platform for Xbox games as well.

I can see that in the future also.
I don't think that's what he meant here though, considering would've been easier to just say uwp. It's not like people wouldn't know what it means etc.

they do want to bring it all together. But he's talked about pc assets in the past, just think that's what he meant here.

 

[mpg1]

I can see that in the future also.
I don't think that's what he meant here though, considering would've been easier to just say uwp. It's not like people wouldn't know what it means etc.

they do want to bring it all together. But he's talked about pc assets in the past, just think that's what he meant here.

I think it's closer than you think it is. Microsoft just want's one code base to run everything. Xbox XDK games are similar to PC but not enough that you don't need an emulator. I think Scorpio will be a transitionary console in the sense that it will allow games to be developed using XDK api but will eventually want to leave that behind. I still think developers will be able to stick a "tuned" uwp pc build on there from day 1 if they choose.

 

[mpg1]

What if Project Scorpio is a PC?:

http://www.windowscentral.com/could-project-scorpio-be-pc

 

[Jay]

I think it's closer than you think it is. Microsoft just want's one code base to run everything. Xbox XDK games are similar to PC but not enough that you don't need an emulator. I think Scorpio will be a transitionary console in the sense that it will allow games to be developed using XDK api but will eventually want to leave that behind. I still think developers will be able to stick a "tuned" uwp pc build on there from day 1 if they choose.

I would wonder how people would react when you get one type of bug in xo, different bug in Scorpio etc, and their selling it as a single platform.

I would've thought you would want to make sure that xo and Scorpio are running the same code base.
remember you wouldn't be able to have a Scorpio only game.

if they bring uwp games to xo also, then I could see them doing it.

i think their current games are definitely proving grounds though, apex, gears etc

 

[Jay]

What is Project Scorpio is a PC?:

http://www.windowscentral.com/could-project-scorpio-be-pc

I remember reading some of that, and disagreeing with a lot of his trail of thought, even if I don't disagree with the long term goal he believes they have.

 

[mpg1]

I would wonder how people would react when you get one type of bug in xo, different bug in Scorpio etc, and their selling it as a single platform.

I would've thought you would want to make sure that xo and Scorpio are running the same code base.
remember you wouldn't be able to have a Scorpio only game.

if they bring uwp games to xo also, then I could see them doing it.

i think their current games are definitely proving grounds though, apex, gears etc

I don't think we will see triple A uwp games on Xbox One...maybe indie. In terms of code base i think there will be Xbox One version and the PC/Scorpio version going forward until eventually Xbox One is faded out and then every new game will just be the unified uwp game code on Xbox and PC.

 

[Jay]

I don't think we will see triple A uwp games on Xbox One...maybe indie. In terms of code base i think there will be Xbox One version and the PC/Scorpio version going forward until eventually Xbox One is faded out and then every new game will just be the unified uwp game code on Xbox and PC.

it's also a logistik nightmare for Ms to maintain 2 games for the Xbox platform, dlc, updates, verification etc
i just think there's too much management if xo doesn't also have uwp.

but as i said i do believe that uwp is their future, just don't think you can get there unless xo supports it.

 

[BRiT]

Please wait while Microsoft UWP discussion is merged into the following thread in the PC Industry since this goes clearly beyond Console Gaming or PC Gaming: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/microsoft-uwp-discussion.57628/

 

[mrcorbo]

Oops. Sorry.

 

[AzBat]

That's not the only reason someone buys a console. If we apply that thinking to XB vs PS2, why didn't XB sell much more? And even applying that to the current market, why don't owners of XB1 trade in and buy a PS4? If it's not enough difference for someone to trade in their XB1 to get a more powerful PS4, why is it enough to get someone to trade in their PS4 to get a 4Pro? Okay, that's slightly different, but overall the 'performance is king' argument only works for a subset of the market. I reckon ~20% of PS4 owners will upgrade. Definitely less than 50%

Can't apply this generation to previous generations as neither launched at the same time with almost the same base architecture. Those who chose the slower system even with a faster system available did so not for performance reasons. Getting them to upgrade to a different company's even faster system is just as unlikely. While I agree that initially there will be slow uptake by current PS4 owners, but as time moves on I think that they will upgrade in larger numbers. Remember that we started down this discussion after you said to Eastmen

Chances are the vast majority of PS4 owners aren't interested.

I'm sure a large majority are interested. We wouldn't be having this discussion here if the majority weren't interested. Granted they initially may be slow to upgrade at first, but I think most will upgrade before the next generation starts. I think once people start seeing the improvements in PSVR & 1080p like what Tomb Raider is planning, we should see a faster uptake to the Pro.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We'll revisit this in a couple of years and one of us will get to gloat. I don't think the people buying a Slim now for $299, $250 this Holiday season, and cheaper in future, are interested in marginally better visuals for a significant upgrade cost. The people (IMHO) interested in 4Pro are those who bought the consoles at the highest price early on and demonstrably want the best console experience which is why the paid a premium for it in 2013/2014 and may pay a premium for it 2016/2017/2018.

 

[JPT]

Wouldn't the Slim compete with used PS4s from the people upgrading to Pro?
I also doubt that people that have not gotten a console this gen, will go for Pro instead of Slim now, if they decide to jump in.

Personally I am not sure why I should upgrade to Pro, I would probably have bought a Slim, I assume it is quieter, if the Pro hadn't been revealed.

 

[Globalisateur]

We'll revisit this in a couple of years and one of us will get to gloat. I don't think the people buying a Slim now for $299, $250 this Holiday season, and cheaper in future, are interested in marginally better visuals for a significant upgrade cost. The people (IMHO) interested in 4Pro are those who bought the consoles at the highest price early on and demonstrably want the best console experience which is why the paid a premium for it in 2013/2014 and may pay a premium for it 2016/2017/2018.

Well, I don't think we'll see a price cut on the 4Pro before some time. Like the OG PS4, I think this price is there to stay. So buying the console now is kind of worthwhile. And this gen Sony hardware has a very interesting reselling value (well if you don't resell to bestbuy and such obviously)

I bought my PS4 2 years ago at 416€ with one game (new), I shamefully sold it 2 years after at 300€ with 5 games. I expect similar thing with PS4 Pro.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well, I don't think we'll see a price cut on the 4Pro before some time.

I think that will depend on sales. Whatever profit margin Sony have, they will eat into that to make Pro more attractive if sales aren't where they want them to be, ala Microsoft and Xbox One.

 

[temesgen]

All these crystal balls, can someone give me some lottery numbers? MS made a bold statement about Scorpio, it will be very powerful when it launches and that is a good thing. How much it cost, how Sony responds, the CPU and where's Waldo is all conjecture.

 

[goonergaz]

Why should they need to wait until late 2017 if they don't wait for not yet unavailable GPU and CPU technology?

They could do the same as the PS4 Pro, add a few CUs and release it around the same time but they don't.

Why the and? In the reveal MS were quite specific in beating the drums on GPU upgrade, hardly a mention of CPU being upgraded yet this gen that's the biggest thing holding games back, whilst GPU is a headline grabber I'm surprised they wouldn't add mention of a significant CPU upgrade which would widen the perspective gap on Pro further (which let's face it, that's what the reveal was about - my console is bigger than yours).

Same reason PS4 outsells XB1 2 to 1. It's seen as the premium, higher performance piece of kit. People want to buy the best of the best. For an extra $100 it's an easy sell no matter if the benefits can be seen or not. We've been arguing for awhile that most people can't tell the difference between XB1 vs PS4 on multiplatform titles & yet people still buy the PS4 in larger numbers just because it has the better specs. Sony didn't just build a 4.2tf monster that's 2x a PS4 just to target a small niche of consumers. It's going to sell big & possibly more than the original by the time this generation is over with.

Tommy McClain

I think many of the early adopters will be up for an upgrade, those who think Pro may be quieter and of course new customers can get 2x the power for a reasonable upgarde

That's not the only reason someone buys a console. If we apply that thinking to XB vs PS2, why didn't XB sell much more? And even applying that to the current market, why don't owners of XB1 trade in and buy a PS4? If it's not enough difference for someone to trade in their XB1 to get a more powerful PS4, why is it enough to get someone to trade in their PS4 to get a 4Pro? Okay, that's slightly different, but overall the 'performance is king' argument only works for a subset of the market. I reckon ~20% of PS4 owners will upgrade. Definitely less than 50%

Will be interesting to see, it's hard to call - but I'm expecting nearer 50%

We'll revisit this in a couple of years and one of us will get to gloat. I don't think the people buying a Slim now for $299, $250 this Holiday season, and cheaper in future, are interested in marginally better visuals for a significant upgrade cost. The people (IMHO) interested in 4Pro are those who bought the consoles at the highest price early on and demonstrably want the best console experience which is why the paid a premium for it in 2013/2014 and may pay a premium for it 2016/2017/2018.

Bolded is your opion. This holiday they can get the 2x powerful pro for $100 more? There is a good market for both products IMHO

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Bolded is your opion. This holiday they can get the 2x powerful pro for $100 more? There is a good market for both products IMHO

I'm not talking new buyers. If you have a PS4 already, to sell it and get a 4Pro will probably set you back around $150. That's to get a 2x more powerful console which won't translate into a huge difference on screen probably. So $150+ for a marginal improvement over what you already have, or $150 on something else? Like towards PSVR.