I may be wrong but seems to me that having GDDR5 at a speed which would provide bandwidth equivalent to the ESRAM found in XB1 to maintain compatibility was probably part of the consideration.
Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
Yeah, I'm interested to see how they end up dealing with that. Will they just be emulating the ESRAM somehow just to maintain compatibility with applications that run on XBO? If so, will developers continue to optimize for ESRAM if it only physically exists on the XBO once XBO-T is out?
Regards,
SB
Well, all the evidence for Zen has been:
The evidence for Jaguar is:
- There is no 14/16nm version of Jaguar
- Zen should be ready in 2017.
The evidence for Jaguar is:
- Xbox One uses Jaguar
- Scorpio announced as having "8-core CPU"
- All games must work on both Xbox One and Scorpio (VR excepted)
- There is in fact a 14/16nm version of Jaguar
Well, the rumor about the 5.5TF neo was based on sony considering waiting a year for "a better CPU" in addition to the slightly faster gpu, and deciding otherwise for obvious reasons.
So Zen is not impossible. Zen lite. Zen lighter. Zen minus.
(I add fuel to the rumors because I like drama)
So Zen is not impossible. Zen lite. Zen lighter. Zen minus.
(I add fuel to the rumors because I like drama)
Silent_Buddha
Legend
The first consumer version of Zen is also going to be 8 cores. Whereas consumer versions of Jaguar are still limited to 4 cores. 4 core Zens will come out later in similar configurations as Jaguar for mobile APUs. Basically 4 core Zen will eventually replace 4 core Jaguar in the AMD product stack. So the same argument can be made that 8 core Zen could replace 8 core Jaguar in a console.
But as you said, you can also make a case for Microsoft retaining Jaguar. Only time will tell what Microsoft actually end up using.
Regards,
SB
What is in Xbox one S, PS4 slim and PS4 Pro?
I'm sorry but both sides of your list doesn't make sense. I like @Silent_Buddha believe what we have told could mean anything. What about Excavator cores?
the fact that xbo used jaguar and it will make it compatible compared to zen? Why would it? That's 1&3.
Zen should be out by 2017? Just means it will be available.
nothing on either side proves one way or another, and your list for each side doesn't make much sense to me anyway.
if you had mentioned things like size and cost of cores, that would make more sense to me, and more reasonable discussion.
just how big would any 6tf soc with an 8core cpu be anyway? Using smallest cores available etc. Sounds like a HUGE chip.
Look how big ps4p is, I'm talking case here, must have a seriously beefy cooler to be that big compared to slim, when you consider most things about the machines are the same like ram etc
you could have slightly different renderers one for esram one without, or maybe instead of emulating 32mb, give it a bigger size? So most optimizations will work on both machines?
will definitely be interesting what route each Dev takes.
Ms has to give some form of os level emulation though wouldn't it, otherwise games just wouldn't be compatible?
Is there also api functions for esram management?
is there any benefit or big overhead from single renderer to having to manage 2?
I don't follow AMD CPU tech much, but don't often chip companies make varying products of the same family?
There should be a low powered/cut down version of zen just like a jaguar is no?
Regardless, there's not enough evidence to suggest anything. We just know that they delayed till holiday next year and we have ball park specs and a board render.
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There should be a low powered/cut down version of zen just like a jaguar is no?
Regardless, there's not enough evidence to suggest anything. We just know that they delayed till holiday next year and we have ball park specs and a board render.
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That's not the only reason someone buys a console. If we apply that thinking to XB vs PS2, why didn't XB sell much more? And even applying that to the current market, why don't owners of XB1 trade in and buy a PS4? If it's not enough difference for someone to trade in their XB1 to get a more powerful PS4, why is it enough to get someone to trade in their PS4 to get a 4Pro? Okay, that's slightly different, but overall the 'performance is king' argument only works for a subset of the market. I reckon ~20% of PS4 owners will upgrade. Definitely less than 50%
While I feel the same way, given how Sony did not give the new PS4 any tools to deal with 4K, I have this feeling Pro will take the majority of new sales go forward.
If it's true that by 2020 50% of owners will have a 4K TV, if you want resale value on that device to trade in, you're going to get a lot more trade in value if it supports 4K
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Rikimaru
Veteran
Basic core is the same I believe. It's mostly comes from yield issues. Disabling cores/cache, lower frequency. Also some artificial limitations like disabling hyperthreading.
These tweets by Phil Spencer all but confirm to me that Scorpio will be running uwp or even win32 version of games:
http://www.icxm.net/x/xbox-scorpio-devs-working-with-6-tflops-icxm-net-spencer.html
He says " For shipped games that later come to Scorpio I'd expect teams would bring PC builds tuned for 6TF GPUs on PC."
Most shipped PC games now are win32 applications right?
http://www.icxm.net/x/xbox-scorpio-devs-working-with-6-tflops-icxm-net-spencer.html
He says " For shipped games that later come to Scorpio I'd expect teams would bring PC builds tuned for 6TF GPUs on PC."
Most shipped PC games now are win32 applications right?
Rikimaru
Veteran
No it does not.
I edited my post since you've replied but how does it not? He literally says "pc build".
Or at the very least it sounds like Scorpio will run Xbox One XDK builds and uwp/win32 builds and it will be up to the publisher of how they want to upgrade. Either patched the existing Xbox One game (similar to PS4/PS4 Pro) or use the PC build that is optimized for Scorpio specs.
That what I get from those tweets but I could be completely off.
That what I get from those tweets but I could be completely off.
can see why you think that, I just don't agree.
I think he's trying to get across that there will be games that can take advantage of the power by using the pc builds (assets etc) of games.
pc builds have higher quality assets etc, but still essentially same game. Doesn't have to mean uwp games.
do wonder if xo and Scorpio will get the ability to run uwp games in future though, and the implications of that.
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