Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mpg1, May 25, 2016.

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  1. Michellstar

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    Well he talks about innovation, and hes right. You're not tied to specs for years and the barriers of entry for devs are lower
     
  2. DSoup

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    You're not tied to specs and nor your customers. This is the old age Windows game development problem, having to support hundreds (if not thousands) of configurations which is not conducive to rapid development because every part of your development process has to consider the implications of this. It's not something you do for 2 weeks at the end of coding. :nope:

    All of the traditional Windows developments problems then compounded by Oculus and Vive.
     
  3. Karamazov

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    BTW what happened to cloud computing ? (and crackdown 3)
    Did they find out it was not viable for now ?
     
  4. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    It's still coming and it's still going to be used (at least in that one multiplayer(?) mode)
     
  5. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    What I'm still not clear about Scorpio and Xbox console family is that...

    They are bringing xbox to PC. But will they brings PC to xbox? Or at least to Scorpio?

    If they do, it's a boon for people with surface tablet or students.

    NO longer they need beefy pc or laptop I'm addition to tablet or console.

    For students, Xbox is enough to play awesome games without headache and do computer stuff.

    For those with surface they basically can use xbox as a "gaming dock". By using game streaming.

    Sure currently MS already allows UWP apps to be installed and run (but then it crash) on Xbox one. But will they allows classic windows apps to run? Or they will be 100% banking on people making more UWP apps by the time Scorpio got released?
     
  6. eastmen

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    Phil spencer is on giant bomb twitch right now clearing up stuff


    1) Over the live of the xbox one ( even the original ) they get new models or parts so things are in flux up and down depending on the parts avalibility.

    2) xbox one s is designed to run games exactly on xbox one. You shouldn't buy xbox one s thinking its going to run games better.

    3) It has HDR so it will support dynamic res (forza horizon , gears , scale bound examples)


    Project Scorpio

    1) They were doing more work on pc and they were looking at what it takes to run games at 4k on pc and they wanted to bring that to consoles. It was 6tflops they had to hit by that standard to bring 4k to consoles

    2) 6tflops wasn't happening this year , they looked into it . As they started talking to devs like todd howard they found out about fallout in vr and made bandwidth changes to accomadate that

    3) What do you do if you don't have 4k with scorpio . Scorpio is more powerful about 4 and a half times. 6 tflops will change upcoming games in the way they play.

    4) will you get better performance - great question , halo 5 has dynamic res so if you run that game on project scorpio it will make out that game at the res and framerate the game allows.

    5) That isn't a real selling point , I wouldn't buy it to run those games a little better he said.

    6)he got the question if you had a hd tv and not 4k . He said some will do that , if the game is 4k downsampled to 1080p it will look better. He thinks the full experience of scorpio is 4k tv 4k gaming.

    7) Some devs will take advantage of the 6tflops in different ways . Mandate from MS on 4k ? They are open to 1080p and upscaling depending on the dev. They support an open box for devs to do what they want .

    8) One thing they want to make sure we under stand. Everything that comes out for the xbox family works on all 3 . Its not buying different copies. If you buy an xbox one game , you have the pc and scorpio version

    9( a lot of feedback from console owners that a lot of good pc rigs and they have to make a choice on where their friends will be playing. So do you buy it on steam or origin for the pc or ps4 xbox for the console , where are my friends. First party games like halo wars or gears you don't have to pick . Windows friends or xbox friends. You buy the games and you can buy with them. Want to play on your monster rig maxed out or your but on the couch with a controller on the console you can do that.


    Other stuff

    1) GOW modes - The creators ideas are most important. So they gave them the tools . If they want strict competitive modes that's great ,if you want everyone to play that's great even down to different modes. As they get feedback they will be responsive . They are at the beginning of all this and will react properly. They even talked about shadowrun. He loved the healing tree and so did I , he said it should have been an rpg.

    2) They are going to learn from doing. They learned a lot from rocket team on cross network play . He wasn't in the role when they made the policys but now he is and it makes sense. The valve guys have been supportive in making it happen

    3)Sony invited spencer to play vr. They are talking about neo and code names.

    4) whats their role in a world where physical boxes isn't that important as before. He loves them going through the thought process cause its what they thought of. They get snart on active users. But when he thinks about the health of the company he thinks about software sales and how many are playing

    5) if they look at people playing on the pc and think its bad then they are going to fail , he lived through that and it was called games for windows. On a fundmental level its about building the best games they can and

    6) he has two daughters he thought if he wants to put his daughters on xbox live , so he wanted people to be able to create communities to make a sphere of people he is confterable to play with or his daughters

    7) you can have private clubs with mods and they can move you out of the club if your breaking rules . It wont be perfect but they will learn and improve

    8) back to the point , its not about outselling sony , its about improving their sales and making sure people can enjoy their games how they want too. 5 years ago people were telling him why can't I just play the games on my phone , now sony is killing it this generation , Nintendo has a new system coming he can't wait to see , things like neo and scorpio will drive them forward and make games and the experience better and he can't wait to see it.

    9)he is very commited to the console space , he spends most of his time on consoles , he loves playing on the tv and thinks its going to be healthy for a long time. If a customer wants to plug a pc into his tv and use it as a console they can that's why they added Bluetooth

    10) update on elite ? Nothing to talk about very happy with quality and response . Having a top controller is something they should always have



    VR

    1) Vague terms , they had palmer last night. Phil missed eagle flight .

    2) MS isn't in the vr business , will I be able to plug his rift into the scorpio. Well phil thinks pc is the best place for vr . He thinks its too early . He thinks its not 3d tv , it has a real place it wont go away. He doesn't think we know what will engage people . He doesn't think taking a game you play on a 2d screen and putting it in vr will work , like when tv came out they just put plays on tv and it didn't work.

    3) he is rambling about other stuff like HoloLens

    4) So when they designed scorpio they are talking to htc , valve , scorpio . They have nothing to say but it was designed to be a high fidelity box .

    5) They will have more to say ....

    6) Frame rate is important , pc is just a great spot for that. The fact that the xbox one line is running on windows 10 lets them see whats going on in the pc space and lets them lock on at some time to the future with what works right for vr on consoles



    Windows

    1) More work to be done with UWP

    2) Still conern , talk to sweeny all the time . People think the store and uwp is linked for bad reasons .

    3) UWP is coming to consoles

    4) Even launching on the store isn't going well , quantum did bad , forza did well , ki did well. Geras did okay. They are learning

    5) We are in on this , Rod bought him a tshirt that says we are building pc games again.

    6) pc is increadibly healthy , making sure there is as much over lap for the dev as possible. The idea of finishing a game and giving it to someone else to port it to pc and then supporting two code bases is silly


    7) how married are they to owning those services . Would they be open to a UPlay like set up where they have you sign up for uplay but buy and launch on steam.

    they sell games like age of empires on it says phil

    IT could make sense to sell triple a games on it. Its on a great growth and it will keep growing. As the platform holder windows , his role is actually the head of gaming. He thinks of valve as an important isv for them . He doesn't think valve is hurt by not having their titles in the store.

    He thinks he will learn by doing and putting the games in the store. He talked with gabe and scott and so on. Gabe thinks there will be places they cooperate , compete and so on and it will be best for consumers.

    He thinks for first party stuff they have to put it on windows.

    He gets the sentimate that if its not on steam its not a windows game and valve deserves it cause they have been there for gamers.

    he gets the meme of games for windows 2 . But as long as he is in this postion he wants to put games on his store and learn from that .They will put games on steam again. He had valve over and showed them scorpio.

    There is no religion saying they wont ship on steam again but they have to do their own work on their store.



    Does he think this is how consoles will go , Seems everyone likes the architecture they are on. Do you think this is what they will do with another scorpio 4 y ears down the line.

    Phil says people ask about phones are you going to put one out every year or two like phones. He says no they want to find a good candance. He feels 4k is an important part. What is the next thing 8k ? 120hz or what. No time line on that yet.

    As for as compatibility , he struggled with the lack of 360 bc. He felt customers can't trust them if they kept saying start again. So 360 bc was important more annoucnements tomorrow on stuff with that.

    In terms of forward compatability that is the spirit , he can't tell what the future holds. 360 was power pc , one was x86 as long as they stay with the same tech his windows past makes him want to go as long as they can.

    Cloud saves , controllers and so on should all work with scorpio.


    Any hesitation on the devs part by having multiple skus ? Phil says why announce two systems at the event. The discussion he says of how they support it , the pc world has done it for a long time , min / recommended so on. Now they will have 2 , they xbox one/s and scorpio. He thinks the question is how do you deliever the 4k assets. If your on a one do you have to download the 4k assets ? He said he wanted to give a view to customers into the future. So they can buy with as much info as he can give them . Unlike another company
     
    #446 eastmen, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
    cheapchips, Malo, RootKit and 9 others like this.
  7. Jwm

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    All I got from that is I am going to get banned from the B3D club...when I let the two-years old play with the controllers during FH3! ;)

    Thanks for the executive summary, so I have 18-months to think about projector upgrades.
     
  8. eastmen

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    Its over sorry about any spelling and what not
     
  9. mpg1

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    Yeah I watched that....a treasure trove of info. I think what he says about VR is true though...it still isn't totally figured out yet...
     
  10. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    It's not that small. According to AMD's leaked Polaris slides there are 13m VR capable PC's in the market today, but they want to grown that to 100m with the 480 series (and NV will add to that with the 1060 as well). I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that by the time PSVR launches, the VR capable market size on the PC could be close to the PS4 market size or even larger than the XBO market.
     
  11. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    I'm not so sure 1060 will cut it, recent leaks suggest 192-bit membus after all. Of course, it still might be enough, but seem sketchy
     
  12. DSoup

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    And 13m sounds like a lot but a metric ton of those 'VR capable PCs' are going to include PCs which are not used for VR, or even for gaming. Let me know when a PC VR-only game sells more than a million copies. 500,000 will be impressive. Having aspirations of 100m is great but again, many of those will be machines not used for gaming but for CAD, rendering or Photoshop because more GPU power is how to make Photoshop faster. :yep2:
     
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  13. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Seems fair on the comment about announcing both now. This is the first time ever consoles are going to eve running in parallel, I'm not sure if it's fair either to just dump the whole Apple idea of, hey it's on sale next month. Quite frankly kids need to prepare their cash and bug their mommies for this stuff well in advance.

    I think just dumping it on the public there could be some backlash, parents go and buy a ps4 next week there is a Neo. There was no heads up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    With the 1070 offering Titan-X level performance I'll be amazed in the 1060 doesn't offer 970 level performance. 192b should be fine in combination with faster GDDR5X and Pascals new memory compression tech. The 970 only had a 256b bus, some would argue it doesn't even have that because of the memory split.
     
  15. mpg1

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    I'm interested to hear more about the specs but it's good to see Microsoft wanting to put out a powerful console again. Kinda feels like is Xbox -> Xbox 360 all over again. Coincidentally Xbox One will have been out 4 years, probably have the same amount of units as the original Xbox sold.

    If this thing has a Vega based gpu I'll pretty excited. If this thing has a Vega gpu and Zen cpu...then probably be day one for me.
     
  16. ToTTenTranz

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    Vega seems to be Polaris + HBM2, in the same way that architecturally Fiji was Tonga + HBM.
    Unless the rendered PCB shown in Scorpio's announcement is just a placeholder (not impossible), we're looking at a SoC with 384bit RAM (1666MHz or 6.66GT/s GDDR5) with no HBM on sight.

    So in a way, if anything the GPU will be Polaris based.
     
    #456 ToTTenTranz, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  17. Michellstar

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    Yes, I don´t expect HBM2 despite being a perfect fit for a console, or a laptop.
    Pricing, availability, whatever

    But one thought keeps popping on my mind, why Holidays 2017?

    We´ll see when NEO lands, what´s under the hood
     
  18. ToTTenTranz

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    Because it wouldn't be ready for holidays 2016 and new consoles are always launched right before Christmas holidays (late November) in order to maximize sales and exposure.


    Unless you're Nintendo and your hardware is late but you promised your shareholders a new console during fiscal 2016.. so you decide to launch a console during the worst quarter in the year (Q1).
     
  19. Michellstar

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    Do you expect the Neo this holidays??
     
  20. ToTTenTranz

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    Most people were (and most rumors were pointing to Q4 2016), until Scorpio's specs started to leak and Sony decided to go completely silent about it on E3.
    Now.. no one seems to know anymore.
     
    RancidLunchmeat likes this.
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