Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

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I dont think Xbox Slim will even have HDMI IN.

If it were my call, that would be my call. Any part of the SoC handling that would be removed, any additional silicon in the video output would be removed.

Lean and mean on games, within carefully targeted MS only dash stuff. Free up some of that 3GB for games too, Neo styleee.
 
Be uhh conservative with just cutting down $. It's never that straight forward, these consoles still need to last, they aren't exactly installing bottom of the barrel parts.

That being said an Xbox slim coming in $150-200 price point with sales dropping as low as $100 would be a great machine for value but that is for another thread. As this thread is about Scorpio. And the device likely to be announced is the slim. Lol. We do have things backwards here.


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Well the original xbox one is at $300 right now. A slim with a 14nm chip and smaller casing / less power requirements will reduce costs further. So MS can price it lower.

A cut down box without a hardrive or bluray drive that can ship in something the size of two controller boxes will reduce costs all over the place.

The xbox one apu on 14nm should be a staggering decrease in power consumption and heat output

That's certainly one possibility but one of the touted benefits of moving to 14/16 nm FF (from 28 nm non-FF) is anywhere from 40-70% reduction in power consumption. The upper range around 60-70% is if it is mainly used to reduce power consumption and not to increase speed. TSMC, for example, states a generic 40% increase in speed along with a simultaneous 60% reduction in power consumption.

Presumably Microsoft wouldn't be looking to increase the speed and would be going for a straight shrink which would play well into the power efficiency curve. Now, the SOC isn't the only power consumer in the machine (so it's not going to drop to 30-40 watts while under load) but it is by far the largest power consumer in the platform.

At load when running games the XBO can go up to 120 watts although I've seen some sites have measured closer to 110 watts for the entire console. I'd just put that down to silicon variability or games tested.

Anyway. It isn't inconceivable that they could get the power consumption of the entire machine down to around 50-60 watts under load, perhaps less if they can realize power savings in other areas (the dual WiFi chips for example, or LPDDR instead of DDR). And that's assuming they keep using mechanical HDDs (which is the logical choice). An SSD would give great savings with regards to power and heat, but is still too costly for integration into a cost sensitive console.

At that point you aren't far off from the above Intel NUC. Possibly even matching it or even bettering it depending on components choses. The noise would be noticeable (like the Intel NUC) but likely wouldn't be "screaming."

That Intel NUC will certainly still be quite a bit louder than the current XBO. And I don't think Microsoft would want to sacrifice that much in the acoustics to achieve an extremely small form factor. Hence why the rumored slim (also has to house a optical drive) will be roughly the size of the PS4. It's still smaller, and you don't have to get too exotic with the cooling system or component choices (cheaper DDR rather than LPDDR, for example) which will help with the BOM.

But it's certainly possible they could get something close to the Intel NUC in size while still being fairly quiet. For example, if they adapted their cooling system (larger and more robust) from the Surface Pro 4 for use with a SFF XBO along with finding the most power efficient components they can along with an SSD.

Thinking about it. They could always make a Media centric XBO with a smallish 16-64 GB eMMC SSD (cheaper than you can make a mechanical drive). The storage wouldn't be enough to allow you to store games on it which means if someone wanted to play games on it, they'd have to hook up external storage. But in a situation like that they could certainly make something similar in size to an Intel NUC with acoustics that are similar or better when running media. And similar or slightly worse when gaming.

I don't see it happening, but it's certainly possible if they wanted to put in the cost and effort.

Regards,
SB

you would still have an xbox slim but target that towards the gamer. This will target those who are buying media sticks or small apple tv device types. The added benfit is that you can play xbox 360 and xbox one games.

Anyway the intel nuc has a ssd in there. You can remove that and increase room inside the case to add a bigger heatsink or larger fan.

upload_2016-6-9_17-44-21.png

This thing is the size of the xbox one power brick its actually not as tall as the power brick. You can simply expand the case to put in a larger fan / heatsink to bring down the noise .

It would wager it will only spin up the fan for xbox one games. Using Netflix and other apps would be a non issue.

For gamers you'd be able to add usb storage ala a hardrive or thumb stick l ike you can already do on the xbox one one.
 
Well there's a lot of things in the Intel NUC that wouldn't be needed in an XBO the size of the NUC. The memory will be on MB itself. If they used an eMMC SSD as I stated, it'd also be soldered directly to the MB. They have the expertise to make a really compact MB with high memory capacity (see Surface 4 Pro). That would leave room for a more robust cooling solution.

Taking the split cooling solution from Surface 4 Pro would see them using the top of the device to help cool the chip, which means that when only running media the fan for the cooling solution could run at a low enough RPM to as to be virtually inaudible.

The downside of all that is that it wouldn't be cheap. For example, the cooling solution itself, while having to dissipate less heat than the current XBO would have to do it in a significantly smaller amount of space which means it's going to be more expensive to engineer to have low acoustics. The MB would be more layers and likely more complex meaning more cost. LPDDR would likely cost more than regular DDR. They would save a bit on the BOM with the smallish amount of eMMC, but that also potentially limits the attractiveness of the machine.

Overall, while I think it's possible, I don't see it as viable. Especially at the price point they'd have to hit in order for a machine that cannot play most XBO games out of the box (due to storage limitations). Yes, it'd be able to play them once you hooked up external media, but that does negate some of the convenience of a console if that's the ONLY way you'll be able to play games on it. While I like the idea of a machine like that. I doubt the general public is ready for something like that unless it costs closer to 100 USD than 200 USD. And this would certainly cost closer to 200 USD. And at 200 USD, it'd almost certainly be selling for a loss, and likely not a small loss.

Regards,
SB
 
It is just a much better example than Intel NUC : Inside the Alienware Alpha
That is a system using a 22nm CPU, a 28nm CPU, and DDR3 and GDDR5. Nowadays we have 14/16nm CPU and GPU and memory that can deliver the same level of performances or more in a more power efficient manner. If there were to be a Beta targeting more or less the same level of performances it would not surprise if it does along with passive cooling. Now that may not be true for the level of performances MSFT aim with the their new system.
 
This would be the media stick / apple tv competitor nothing in that class allows used games either. It would be for streaming apps first and games second. The allure of the device would be that it could do everything that a Roku box or apple tv or fire tv or NVidia shield tv can do but runs all windows apps and xbox games.

Most "SmartHDTVs" are including this functionality either built in or on some stick...your proposals sound unfocused and definitely not a games console.

You night wanna get rid of controllers too and make voice activated.
 
The decision to call the new console Xbox Scorpio might be due to the fact that Bill Gates is Scorpio, so they did that in honour to Bill Gates. My girlfriend is obsessed with the signs of zodiac, and I'm Scorpio myself so my theory could be right, I guess.

With that said, what I think though, is that it won't be called Xbox anymore, because of Xbox One's bad decisions and the things that are to its discredit.
 
oh well, I expect a rebranding or a reset of the brand -maybe not Xbox, but Xbox One for sure, which was made by publicists who tried to tell us what we had to like and put the X1 down our throats, who were not passionate about consoles. The people who created the X360, those were the guys...

I also expect some kind of console gaming 3rd Reich if the decisions are wrong again, because Nintendo aren't dominating and Xbox is second by a long margin in order to get close to the PS4, so we could see a total console gaming domination.
 
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The decision to call the new console Xbox Scorpio might be due to the fact that Bill Gates is Scorpio, so they did that in honour to Bill Gates. My girlfriend is obsessed with the signs of zodiac, and I'm Scorpio myself so my theory could be right, I guess.

With that said, what I think though, is that it won't be called Xbox anymore, because of Xbox One's bad decisions and the things that are to its discredit.

Yup, they'll drop the Xbox moniker and it'll be called...

Cortana. It'll come in censored and uncensored editions. The controllers will have strategically placed silicone bumps to make them more comfortable to hold in the palms of your hands. So comfortable, in fact, that you won't want to stop playing with the controllers, er games.

Regards,
SB
 
Most "SmartHDTVs" are including this functionality either built in or on some stick...your proposals sound unfocused and definitely not a games console.

You night wanna get rid of controllers too and make voice activated.

Yea I mean the fact that Amazon , Apple , Nvidia , Roku and others all have these devices is unfocused .

Smart tvs have existed for years and the interfaces are slow and sucks and become unsupported after a few years. I have a sony bluray player that used to have Netflix and hulu apps but both stopped being supported and no longer work.
 
Yup, they'll drop the Xbox moniker and it'll be called...

Cortana. It'll come in censored and uncensored editions. The controllers will have strategically placed silicone bumps to make them more comfortable to hold in the palms of your hands. So comfortable, in fact, that you won't want to stop playing with the controllers, er games.

Regards,
SB
:D it sounds better than the xbox cancer we got from the early days of the current generation. My guess is that the new console is going to be called Xbox Scorpio, either that or Talisman.

We can expect a tablet like console, which you can move around, but capable.

I have a feeling that the Xbox Scorpio is going to form an alliance with Oculus to get into the VR future and will be co-financed by MS and facebook
 
Xbox Project Scorpio confirmed at the MS E3 announcement.

VR Gaming
4K Gaming
4K Resolution
60Hz
6TeraFlops
320GB/s
8 CPU

Xbox One family, forwards compatible, games and accessories work on both.

No one left behind.

Holiday 2017.
 
GDDR5 on 384-bit bus or GDDR5X on 256-bit
The (I assume) rendered image showed 12 memory devices.

Screen%20Shot%202016-06-13%20at%2010.56.46%20AM.png
 
Who do you think is going to the be their partner (or at least primary partner) for VR? :p

Regards,
SB
So true, not going to be Valve/Steam as this unified play anywhere sort of takes a hit on that. I did expect to see more from John other than just the gear VR bit he did, maybe behind closed doors. I am sure this box will support them all, and I would guess Oculus Rift 2 should be in the picture by this release?
 
I am sure this box will support them all, and I would guess Oculus Rift 2 should be in the picture by this release?

Especially when MS is pitching their Win10 based OS for all things VR and AR.
 
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