I don't consider check boxing the minimal mandatory support for Neo to be targeting the platform. Sony according to leaks is doing a weird handicapping of neo
Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]
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I don't consider check boxing the minimal mandatory support for Neo to be targeting the platform. Sony according to leaks is doing a weird handicapping of neo
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Deleted member 11852
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Not an unfair comment but I believe Sony see it as not disadvantage their cash cow, PS4. It'll be interesting to see how these dynamics, and consumers reactions to them, pan out.
We won't really know for 12-18 months post launch.
I don't think the policy will last 18 months . If Scorpio is a 6+ tflop monster and sony is handicapping the ps4 neo it could be a bigger blow out than the start of this generation . If neo stays at the rumored 4.4tflops it will already be at a disadvantage on the level of the one vs ps4 . If they keep the limits I've heard about they will be at an even further disadvantage and by the time the lift everything and let devs push the neo it could be to late.
I hope they change the policies before the neo even launches but who knows what sony is thinking . God only knows what will happen if MS hits the 10tflop number that an earlier rumor was saying.
Btw people on reddit have reported that a few of their windows 10 apps also appears on Xbox one but it crash after splash screen. It's like Playstation cross buy.
It seems Microsoft do want to merge PC and Xbox.
Hopefully it's not just for UWP apps but also games.
It seems Microsoft do want to merge PC and Xbox.
Hopefully it's not just for UWP apps but also games.
I know that this may be crazy thinking and that current xbox owners may not like the idea, but this is how I think they should go given the current state of leaks, prices are just general figures.
All supports hdmi 2.0(b?) to allow 4k streaming:
$100
Compute stick device - runs xbox front end but defaults to movies and films(does streaming via netflix, prime etc uwp's). Cant play xbox games, but can play simple uwp games and apps. Has XO controller receiver built in to allow xbox one games to be streamed from xbox.
$200
Xbox mini - Digital only device, plays xbox games, and uwp apps. Same performance as current xbox, using cut down and underclocked version of slims apu.
$300
Xbox slim - upgraded xbox specs e.g. 4tf, in a new slim case.
$400+
xbox scorpio - next year high end device. (By the time it comes out the other devices may have dropped in price a bit)
All supports hdmi 2.0(b?) to allow 4k streaming:
$100
Compute stick device - runs xbox front end but defaults to movies and films(does streaming via netflix, prime etc uwp's). Cant play xbox games, but can play simple uwp games and apps. Has XO controller receiver built in to allow xbox one games to be streamed from xbox.
$200
Xbox mini - Digital only device, plays xbox games, and uwp apps. Same performance as current xbox, using cut down and underclocked version of slims apu.
$300
Xbox slim - upgraded xbox specs e.g. 4tf, in a new slim case.
$400+
xbox scorpio - next year high end device. (By the time it comes out the other devices may have dropped in price a bit)
Silent_Buddha
Legend
No, supporting a platform doesn't necessarily mean targeting a platform.
For instance, in supporting a platform it just has to run. So a simple upscaling of a game or moving from 30 FPS to 60 FPS requires little to not effort cost. So basically game that looks like it was designed for the PS4 and not the PS4 Neo when run on the Neo.
While targeting a platform means much more than that. You'll potentially be using different and more complex shaders than the PS4 version. Perhaps higher quality textures and texture filtering. Perhaps a more computationally expensive but cleaner AA solution with less corner cases where it breaks down. Perhaps higher quality assets (models, animations, AI, etc.). That would cost money.
Smaller budget games will likely target the PS4 and ignore the Neo other than putting in some basic support (60 instead of 30 FPS or higher resolution, for example). While more well funded developers will target the PS4 and the Neo.
Once Neo comes into play there will be 4 different gaming platforms for developers to target in the Sony Ecosystem. PS4, Neo, PS4 VR, Neo VR. Depending on development budgets and game focus a developer will be able to target anywhere from 1 to 4 of those. But will always "support" at least 2 of them.
There's also a middle ground where you target the PS4 Neo (more expensive than just targeting PS4) and then scale certain things down to PS4 similar to how things are handled on PC. Eventually this will likely become the way console games are developed, but there will be a transition time for the more console centric developers to adjust.
Oh and, of course, there's another option for the really small developers (mostly indie devs) don't target any of them. Just target "can run on PlayStation" as anything they make won't come even close to using most of the resources available on PS4 much less PS4 Neo.
Although indie developers also don't necessarily have the resources to optimize for the hardware, so they might end up running horribly anyway. Regards,
SB
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Deleted member 11852
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I don't see this matters. What the manufacturer and the devs do with hardware is more important than how much raw performance it has. As has been raised many times previously, the original Xbox was quite a bit more powerful than the PS2 but that they didn't mean anything to the majority of consumers. PS4 has 50% more CUs than Xbox One and the world didn't end for Xbox. They both play the same games and the differences aren't night and day. Much like 360 and PS3 and original Xbox and PS2.
Going forward I can only see the differences becoming more and more marginal. Just look at high-end PCs for years of proof about the relative advances in computational power and diminishing returns this power can be used for.
To be fair, that's because high end PC isn't really being targeted. A game designed from the ground up to make best use of powerful gaming rig would be substantially better than what's actually available which is mostly about scaling up with minimal effort from a lower common denominator. But yes, a two fold increase perofrmance doesn't equate to a 2x increase in on screen wow. Wow is on a logarithmic curve.
Thats precisely that same thing that would happen to a beefed up new mid-gen version of a console that so-far has sold half as many units as its competitor. Scorpio could have 20Tflops, and economics and dev's focus would still relegate the thing to playing 4k versions of ps4/xbo games... Its almost delusional to think many AAA devs will care to make scorpio games look worthy of the power it has. Like no one remembers the dreamcast.
That hasn't been said enough.
@milk there's many reasons why xo has sold less than ps4, many people have many opinions as to what they are.
if ms believes that one of the reasons is being seen as less powerful, whether that be 5% or 100%, whether it can be seen on screen by less than 1% of people or everyone, it really doesn't matter if that is the perception.
why buy a weaker machine unless it's extremely more cheaper, and even then the more powerful one may be cheap enough to off set that thought. If that is part of ms thinking then it could be easily worth going for it
especially as they may think they have tried everything else
if ms believes that one of the reasons is being seen as less powerful, whether that be 5% or 100%, whether it can be seen on screen by less than 1% of people or everyone, it really doesn't matter if that is the perception.
why buy a weaker machine unless it's extremely more cheaper, and even then the more powerful one may be cheap enough to off set that thought. If that is part of ms thinking then it could be easily worth going for it
especially as they may think they have tried everything else
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Deleted member 11852
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And PS4's higher CU count isn't really being targeted by existing devs either. Maybe PS4 owners are getting 1080p where XBO are getting 900p or dynamic resolutions but the tangible gap of 50% more compute units is very much in the realm of diminishing returns in terms of what games are delivering. And thats the market leading hardware with 40 million sales to date. People will point at Uncharted 4 as an exemplary example of what PS4 is capable of technically but it's not representative of most games. It's the absolute outlier. Ditto Quantum Break's visuals on XBO.
Most game's technology is, as you said, grounded by the lowest common denominator - GPU on Xbox One and CPU on PS4.
Can we please stop turning this thread into a WHAT I WOULD DO (ramr) or What MS Should Do. Those threads exist elsewhere. Please use them.
Posts moved into this thread: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/xbox-what-should-ms-do-next-spawn.55903/
Posts moved into this thread: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/xbox-what-should-ms-do-next-spawn.55903/
The chromecast device will not have the power to play UWP games. Dont all the sticks have bad specs?
The Xbox TV will be that since it'll be big enough to have an AMD soc.
Either the slim will have an upgrade or it will not. There will be no appreciable difference in BOM or TDP between a Polaris slim and regular slim. Probably no difference R&D cost either. The cost would be in adding, testing, and maintaining new APIs in the XDK for the upgraded slim.
Finally, you won't get 4 teraflops on the esram and DDR3 architecture without upgrading it. I.e doubling esram amount and bw. Use DDR4. At that point you might as well spend less R&D to make something more powerful like Scorpio.
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uwp covers mobile type games also. So it would be able to run them, candy crush, endless runners etc
for clarification, but this thread is about scorpio, so I'll leave it at that.
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Deleted member 11852
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This felt like a rubber banding effect snapping. Last ten technology, particularly lack of memory, must have been holding back multi-platform developers - despite open world marvels like GTA V. It shouldn't really have been as PC was capable of so much more for so long but I doubt many devs were wanting to build an engine for 360/PS3 consoles and an engine capable of so much more for PC, because as if evident from sales information, PC is a small market relative to consoles.
The good thing about this iterative console stuff is they will finally be forced to leave their crippling E/D/SRAM fixation behind...you cant mess with garbage like that in the real world. It's gonna be 256 bit buses from here out. And good, GDDR5/X is getting so fast. Isn't the freakin GTX1080 on a 256 bus? Well I know the R 480 X is anyway.
Is that Nick Baker responsible for EDRAM? He should be fired.
1. it was Esram.
2. He did the best he could do with the leadership decision to have 8GB of ram. At that time 8GB of GDDR5 wasn't even possible.
Should companies fire a product guy if the product works as intended, but flops due to lack of interest from the public? I would say fire the people that set the product vision in the first place. i.e. The program managers, the suits, Mattrick, etc.
Well, not impossible. 2Gbit density chips were available, and they'd have needed 16 chips for
They've already gone over their decision making process anyways.
edit: error 404
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The Xbox one has a 256 bit bus for DDR3. It also has 16 ddr3 chips. Unlike PS4, you can't clamshell the chips to reduce mobo size.
At the time of Xbox one conception 2Gbit Gddr5 wasn't a sure thing for 2013.
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