Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[Phil]

Why is it so difficult for people to adjust to a new mechanic in a game ?
Every game is different, and I found aiming and shooting very difficult in MGS3 initially, but adjusted and enjoyed the game immensely thereafter.
Its more about mindset than lag, I feel.
There might be a actual lag which I do not notice, or maybe My TV doesn't exagerrate it so I don't notice, but for a Single Player experience, I think it is nothing to rant about. Adjust and enjoy, if you can't, there are many other games to play. No Sweat !

Personally, because controls are trival to the mechanics of a game. If they don't work, it can break a game easily, even if it's as good as KillZone2. I haven't played the full retail version yet, so I'm looking forward to finding out, but the demo was a pain to play because of it (the combination of lag, acceleration and dead-spot). I think the reason why most people are disappointed and very vocal about this, is because it would take very little adjustments by Guerrilla to give the options available to make it a better game for those that wish.

Controls like the ones found in R:FOM or CoD have been proven to work very well (despite the constant swearing of PC gamers that keyboard/mouse is the only way to play FPS). Why change it, if it isn't doing the gameplay any favours?

 

[betan]

I don't understand how the perceived input lag can have anything to do with the rendering.

It can. Any set of tasks that can run in parallel, when serialized to be done in one frame time, results in inefficient use of resources.

For example, lets say your rendering has three main parts: Setting up GPU tasks (on CPU), GPU tasks (on GPU), post processing tasks (on SPU)
If you don't want any additional latency you would try to fit all three serial stages in one frame time but that means, for example, GPU will have much limited time, that is
1/30 s - CPU tasks completion time - SPUS postprocessing time.

Instead you can pipeline them such that every "task" runs in parrallel:
setting up GPU tasks (on CPU) for n'th frame // GPU tasks (on GPU) for (n-1)th frame // Post processing for (n-2)th frame (on CPU).

This way every resource will have more time to complete with the cost of additional 2 frame latency
(which would be 1 frame more than the latency you would see without SPU post processing).

If it did then the complexity of the scene should have some affect on the lag. For example the lag should be greater when there are a lot polygons, effects etc. on the screen and somewhat less when there isn't much happening e.g. the corridor before the warehouse in the demo.

That's not necessarily true when pipeline stages are synchronized by external synchronization input (like vsync). Of course if graphical complexity is so high that, one of tasks can not be completed in one frame time, it will result in more latency which the user may simple call frame drops.

 

[deepbrown]

It appears the controls are more twitchy in MP, as we thought. You can turn quicker

 

[Scott_Arm]

Personally, because controls are trival to the mechanics of a game. If they don't work, it can break a game easily, even if it's as good as KillZone2. I haven't played the full retail version yet, so I'm looking forward to finding out, but the demo was a pain to play because of it (the combination of lag, acceleration and dead-spot). I think the reason why most people are disappointed and very vocal about this, is because it would take very little adjustments by Guerrilla to give the options available to make it a better game for those that wish.

Controls like the ones found in R:FOM or CoD have been proven to work very well (despite the constant swearing of PC gamers that keyboard/mouse is the only way to play FPS). Why change it, if it isn't doing the gameplay any favours?

I actually bought my PS3 to get Killzone2 on day one. After playing the demo, Killzone2 is on my wait and see list. I'm sure I'll end up getting it, but there are other things I'd rather play first. I had problems with the control, and like you said, that broke the game for me. Outside of the visuals, nothing blew me away, and the control felt wrong. Obviously I'm just one guy and people play games for different reasons and enjoy different things about them.

 

[Phil]

It appears the controls are more twitchy in MP, as we thought. You can turn quicker

I was hoping that much, but thanks for confirming. It's a day one purchase for me regardless, so I'm sure I'll see you online

I have to say, the gameplay looks really deep as well (MP).

 

[patsu]

Yes, the MP gameplay looks deep.

deepbrown, I thought the MP servers are not up ? Are you playing with the bots ? I was going to ask what your favorite soldier class is.

 

[Arwin]

Personally I had no trouble with the controls, but I don't nearly play as much fps as some of you guys (though I did play uncharted, resistance 1 and mgs4 of course) ... However, wasn't it mentioned that GG looked into the matter and from the first analysis it seemed to be a problem exclusive to the demo? Well, we'll see.

I think for me Killzone 2 is one of those games that I wouldn't necessarily have bought myself, but so many of my friends both online and offline will be playing this, that I think I'll join in. I've had to weigh my purchases though for a while now - I can basically buy one full price retail game each month, but I've been considering bigger purchases like a new amp (I still 'only' have my old 1992 Sony Prologic set) or the full set of GH World Tour (equals three months of games, but I think my 9 month old son would love it - he loves it when I drum on a small desk, and he actually joins in - awesome).

I can't help but post this for laughs in the meantime. That scene is so awesome for these kinds of things ... it's not as great as after the Warner announcement in support of BluRay, but it's still funny.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I can't help but post this for laughs in the meantime. That scene is so awesome for these kinds of things ... it's not as great as after the Warner announcement in support of BluRay, but it's still funny.

LOLZ

 

[Cheezdoodles]

That youtube video has been "translated" into hitler saying so many different things, its hardly fun nor originial anymore. A year ago i saw the exact same video with hitler being pissed because his car got stolen, pissed because his X360 got a RRoD etc..

 

[ShadowRunner]

Still makes me smile every time!

 

[deepbrown]

That youtube video has been "translated" into hitler saying so many different things, its hardly fun nor originial anymore. A year ago i saw the exact same video with hitler being pissed because his car got stolen, pissed because his X360 got a RRoD etc..

But if you've seen it for the first time, it's hilarious. Sounds like it's your fault for googling "Hitler saying stupid stuff" - to watch all the videos.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Still makes me smile every time!

Haha, yeah...my favorite is when he finds out about the new Dragonball movie!





But...err...back on topic..... I, um,...can't wait for this game...? Looking forward to trying out the multiplayer.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I want a multiplayer demo with the release code.

 

[Arwin]

That youtube video has been "translated" into hitler saying so many different things, its hardly fun nor originial anymore. A year ago i saw the exact same video with hitler being pissed because his car got stolen, pissed because his X360 got a RRoD etc..

I know, but it's just such an awesome, powerful scene. It doesn't matter how many different things you use it for, I still find it amusing.

And besides, it's kinda fitting in the context of the Killzone universe too. Without having played the game yet (but based on what people like John Davison say on podcasts), you could almost imagine that one day soon there are going to be similar reworkings of one of the later cutscenes from the game itself

 

[patsu]

I want a multiplayer demo with the release code.

I found 8 MP footages here: http://ve3tro.com/1881/killzone-2-multiplayer-matches-over-80-minutes-of-gameplay/?

It also answered my questions on Saboteur

The controls have been left default, while people complaining about the “lag” with the movement in the demo. In the multi-player it feels quicker paced and not heavy, the cover system has been removed which I find to be better since this will rid the campers.

Classes are still locked due to the servers being unavailable, the most common question I’ve seen these last few weeks is how to identify the Saboteur class.

Three easy ways to spot one, firstly they don’t appear on the radar as a green friendly it will be red, secondly if your unsure if you have spotted one aim at them for a second or two and the cross hair will go from green to red along with their name.

The final one which I find the easiest to spot, look for the glowing marks on the model. If you see a Helghast without the glowing red/orange goggles then he’s a Saboteur or if you see an ISA without the glowing blue armor then he’s a Saboteur.

Now if you know that the majority of the opposite team will be choosing this class opt to go on the Helghast side since the ISA “Helghast” Saboteur is much easier to spot rather than the other way round.

EDIT:

I know, but it's just such an awesome, powerful scene. It doesn't matter how many different things you use it for, I still find it amusing.

There is a more funny one where Hitler tried to call Sony to report a "bad" KZ2 review.

You know, I hope Sony release the game earlier. R2 is keeping me occupied in the mean time (My K/D is usually above 1 now ). I am really curious to see how they play side-by-side.

 

[patsu]

Last update from GG regarding control lag issue:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...hread.id=143456&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Last update on this (I hope)

After carefully looking into this, reading the posts, talking to a lot of you directly and analysing the controls at GG we have come to the conclusion that there are no changes required to the system. If at all, any changes to the controls would put the majority of people who have not had problems or have adapted out of whack, which may be more serious. Killzone 2 is a weighty, slower, more tactical first person experience that focuses on immersion. It is not a twitchy, split-second gun-wielding experience like some shooters. Also, the online experience is quicker as we've made the controls and animations a little faster during design.

I want to thank you all for your often constructive feedback, both positive and negative and we'll continue to take it all on board to help us make better games. It is almost time folks. Lets enjoy it.

Sounds like the animation may be one of the reasons for the weighted response.

 

[DrJay24]

But if you've seen it for the first time, it's hilarious. Sounds like it's your fault for googling "Hitler saying stupid stuff" - to watch all the videos.

I thought it was great, of course it's not that hard to imagine half of the gaming forum posters acting like that Hitler.

 

[TheBlackLodge]

Best version (IMO obviously) is the one regarding the January transfer window at Ibrox. Even as a Rangers fan it's brilliantly funny.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I think the best video was where Hitler was ranting about Autodesk buying Maya ! that was really funny !

@patsu: regarding animation making the lag visible, I suggested that earlier too. It could be that they have implemented a compete "anticipation+action+followthrough" animation every time you try to look down the iron sight, or try to move forward. The "anticipation" part 0of the animation might be responsible for people feeling the lag. It means when I Press L1 to aim down the scope, it doesn't just snap to the scope, it shows the gun tilting backwards, moving up and then settling down. The delay caused by this animation might be what people are calling lag. Similarly , when you move forward, the camera work creates a movement of the whole body pushing forward, which can be accounted as delay or lag.

But if the game is made taking into consideration that the player goes through this cycle during movements or aiming, and would not be as fast to react, then it won't break the game. The situations in the game will be made accordingly, so that you can beat the game with these nuances in place.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I can't help but post this for laughs in the meantime. That scene is so awesome for these kinds of things ... it's not as great as after the Warner announcement in support of BluRay, but it's still funny.

The ones that actually have some ties to reality are funnier than fanboy BS like that, but yeah that scene sure can be funny.