Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[ultragpu]

Oh damn, how long? Umm...can I find that out by looking at the save file? Cause I played it over a week in shortish bursts.

But I'll say this - games that feel short have one problem - they don't hide when the end is going to happen very well.

At one point in KZ2 I was sad because I thought it was the last level and it felt very short. However, there was then another level, then another... It feels long. Anyway I'd expect about 10 hours.

10hr sounds good, I don't mind short games as long as it's full of actions and surprises, a good ending would be very welcoming too.

 

[vanquish]

This whole talk of input lag coming from the TV is silly.

My set works perfectly fine with no noticeable lag when I play H3, COD4, Uncharted, Resistance or any other shooter games.

It's due to the game not the set, if you are noticing lag that isn't present when you play other FPS's.

 

[djskribbles]

This whole talk of input lag coming from the TV is silly.

My set works perfectly fine with no noticeable lag when I play H3, COD4, Uncharted, Resistance or any other shooter games.

It's due to the game not the set, if you are noticing lag that isn't present when you play other FPS's.

I suggest you get your facts straight. It's not like I'm seeing things.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110472
People have actually tested input lag. Why do you think HDTV's have game modes? Plus some HDTV's have more lag than others. The Samsung A650 and up are well known for having noticeable input lag without using Game mode or PC mode.
Again, I didn't notice any lag in other games either. I think the fact that KZ has sensitivity acceleration makes it more noticeable.

 

[vanquish]

I suggest you get your facts straight. It's not like I'm seeing things.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110472

People have actually tested input lag. Why do you think HDTV's have game modes?

Please don't patronise me, I know more than enough about set response times, game modes etc.

I'm saying that if Beyond3D users who play more than one shooter on their sets (ie. perhaps besides yourself) noticed that input lag that wasn't apparent in other FPSs was present in KZ2.

So it would be a fair conclusion, that regardless of the myriad sets used by KZ2 demo players, there is some input lag, that is not present (or less evident) while playing other titles on the same set, regardless of whether game mode is on or not, their set's response times etc.

 

[djskribbles]

Please don't patronise me, I know more than enough about set response times, game modes etc.

I'm saying that if Beyond3D users who play more than one shooter on their sets (ie. perhaps besides yourself) noticed that input lag that wasn't apparent in other FPSs was present in KZ2.

So it would be a fair conclusion, that regardless of the myriad sets used by KZ2 demo players, there is some input lag, that is not present while playing other titles on the same set.

Sorry, I don't like to be called a liar, and that my input on the matter is "silly".

I don't know how you can tell me I'm wrong, when it's pretty clear that using Game mode on my set eliminated the mouse lag. There's still mouse acceleration (which is what most people are talking about), but the lag is gone. Again, the mouse acceleration makes input lag more noticeable. I've played many shooters on my LN46A650, and this is the first time I've noticed lag.

 

[vanquish]

....... I've played many shooters on my LN46A650, and this is the first time I've noticed lag.

You do realise you just proved my point with that statement there, right?

Please try and understand what I'm trying to say in my posts, disputing your visual acuity was not one of my points.

BTW I was reading your AVSforum link, 50-60 ms in normal display modes is really bad, I thought the A650 series was a very good set.
Thanks for giving me the heads up, I will tell my 650 owner friend to adjust his settings and that it's the reason he finds COD4 controls so different when he comes over and plays on my set.

 

[djskribbles]

No I didn't. You said the lag is in the game, and all I said was, that this is the first game I've experienced lag. The acceleration is what made it noticeable. Just because I haven't noticed it in other games doesn't mean it's not there. The testing done at AVSForum shows that input lag is always present, this is just the first time I've noticed it. Game mode eliminated the lag, so there's proof that it's not the game, it's the TV. Please don't pick and choose my quotes.

The A650 is arguably the best non-LED LCD. Input lag only has a noticeable effect on gaming. Game mode or PC mode greatly reduces the lag. I consider myself a videophile, and I'm more than happy with my A650.

 

[vanquish]

No I didn't. You said the lag is in the game, and all I said was, that this is the first game I've experienced lag. The acceleration is what made it noticeable. Just because I haven't noticed it in other games doesn't mean it's not there. Game mode eliminated the lag, so there's proof that it's not the game, it's the TV. Please don't pick and choose my quotes.

The A650 is arguably the best non-LED LCD. Input lag only has a noticeable effect on gaming. Game mode or PC mode greatly reduces the lag.

Ok then, I am very glad that you have managed to eliminate any lag. However you are too small a sample size to put to rest these claims of input lag.

Does anyone else notice input lag (or increased input lag) while playing KZ2 on their sets, compared to other games?

Doesn't KZ2's use of deferred rendering make it more susceptible to input lag than other traditional methods of rendering?

I myself am pretty sure there is input lag, because the acceleration only kicks in when you tilt the sticks approximately more than halfway in a certain direction.

I did tests by nudging the sticks slightly in a certain direction, (such movements aren't affected by the acceleration), and was quite sure there was some lag.
I'll do the tests again just to be sure.

 

[djskribbles]

I made no claims that this is the solution to everyone's lag problems. I was simply suggesting that it may be the cause. I suggested it before I even tested for myself, and using Game mode clearly made a difference for me. This is enough proof to myself that it's not the game, whether you want to believe me or not. A lot of HDTV's are affected by input lag due to pre-processing causing lag in the signal. I think that if you use the Game mode on your HDTV, that it will only help.

 

[vanquish]

]This is enough proof to myself that it's not the game, whether you want to believe me or not. A lot of HDTV's are affected by input lag due to pre-processing causing lag in the signal. I think that if you use the Game mode on your HDTV, that it will only help.

While I do not doubt the effectiveness of Game Mode at stamping out lag,
this is not the point I was trying to make, perhaps some other posters will understand.

PS: I will enable Game Mode on my TV when i test KZ2 for input lag next.
However I did experiment with Game Mode On vs Off extensively while I was did my playthrough of COD4 on Veteran, and found that it made negligible difference (on my set) and any thoughts I had of it making a difference is likely down to the placebo effect.

 

[deepbrown]

Yes it does, but it gives you far more options than Game mode does. Game mode pretty much greys everything out and the PQ isn't exactly what I would call good. It has the backlight and sharpness on high, and edge enhancement appears to be on. The only way to tweak the backlight, is by changing the Energy Saving mode setting. This is fine, however I usually have Energy Saving mode OFF and this setting applies to all inputs, so I would have to turn it on and off all the time. The only way around this, would be to keep Energy Saving mode on Low and turn up my backlight to compensate. The PQ in Game mode doesn't look TOO bad, and I don't really care how accurate the picture is for games.

After a bit more reading, I guess PC mode doesn't work very well with the PS3 - for anything other than 1080p/60hz, it won't apply the PC mode to reduce input lag.
I tried Game mode and it definitely helps... KZ2 feels just as it did at my sisters house (no lag). The acceleration is still a little weird, but it feels a lot better now. I wouldn't complain if it stayed this way. Before with the input lag and acceleration, it was very difficult to aim in close quarter combat.

I think I can change everything even with Game Mode active...hmmm, might check when i get back.

 

[goonergaz]

No lag here - I have a Panny TH42PZ81 and I didn't notice anything whilst playing, and to test I just pressed the fire button a few times to see if I could notice any delay...and I couldn't.

For the record I have had to adjust the settings for Singstar, Guitar Hero and Rock Band.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No lag here - I have a Panny TH42PZ81 and I didn't notice anything whilst playing, and to test I just pressed the fire button a few times to see if I could notice any delay...and I couldn't.

Did the gun bang the moment the button was pressed, or as there a brief delay? My TV/monitor hasn't got a game mode, so may be introducing the lag I experienced, though I haven't noticed it in any other games.

 

[deepbrown]

Did the gun bang the moment the button was pressed, or as there a brief delay? My TV/monitor hasn't got a game mode, so may be introducing the lag I experienced, though I haven't noticed it in any other games.

No delay here either, in demo or full game.

 

[BoardBonobo]

No lag for me either.

Just played the demo... again, and cleared out the warehouse and was just playing around shooting the last remaining gas cylinders to make them spin when I got killed by a Helghast who had come in through the exit where the demo ends. Dropped a grenade right on me! That's the first time an extra baddies have come that way. Mind you my buddy was down and calling for assistance!

 

[goonergaz]

Did the gun bang the moment the button was pressed, or as there a brief delay?

I did not perceive any delay between pressing the button and the gun firing. If there was a delay then it was so small I did not notice it. This is the best I can offer really as I have no means to test properly. What I did notice in Singstar was that I would start singing (in the very looset sense on the word!) slightly early to catch the begining of notes until I adjust the ingame lag options. Likewise I found in GH & RB I scored much better after adjusting the ingame lag options.

Sorry I cannot be of any more help.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

No lag for me either.

Just played the demo... again, and cleared out the warehouse and was just playing around shooting the last remaining gas cylinders to make them spin when I got killed by a Helghast who had come in through the exit where the demo ends. Dropped a grenade right on me! That's the first time an extra baddies have come that way. Mind you my buddy was down and calling for assistance!

There are 2 helghasts that can spawn in the outside area that finishes the demo, these can come looking for you, i think they can hear you if you make enough noise or something in the warehouse

 

[patsu]

The lag issue is ill-defined in the fora. There's the actual input lag, there's the acceleration, there's the equipment lag. Some think it's a demo-only problem, some think it's a design matter, a few even think it's controller related. Then, some people may be more sensitive to it than the rest.

Just report your own experiences and stop second guessing others' intention. From what I read, lag exists in quite a few popular games. Leave it to GG to investigate themselves. Meanwhile, shouldn't you be playing flOwer ?

 

[Iron Tiger]

Just wanted to comment on the whole lag thing. I downloaded the demo at my sisters house (she has a 46" CRT rear-projection TV) and playing at her house compared to playing on my 46" Samsung LN46A650 120hz LCD, there was noticeably less lag. Mind you, my sister is using composite RCA (I know I know, she needs to get an HDMI cable) - not sure if this has any relevance.

Anyway, the Samsung A650 series has known to have input lag. A lot of other LCD's too because of all the processing in the TV itself. That's why a lot of HDTV's have game modes now. Unfortunately for me, the A650's game mode prevents you from tweaking certain picture settings, and because I use my PS3 for both BR and games, I prefer not to use the game mode. But yeah, after playing at my sister's house, I definitely notice slight lag in the controls. This is the first game where I've noticed it, probably because GG made the weapons feel weighty. Playing at my sisters house, the controls felt great to me.

So yeah, if your HDTV has a game mode, I recommend trying that out. I'm tempted to get a standalone blu-ray player now so I can use game mode on my PS3 and use my calibrated TV settings for my BR player.

After I read the statement where the guy was half-blaming the displays, I set my LN46A650 to game mode. It looks horrible, but it made no great improvement to the controls. If you're noticing a big difference, it could be that with the composite connection, there's less lag due to the lower rendering demands of rendering in SD. Anybody care to test that theory?

 

[djskribbles]

After I read the statement where the guy was half-blaming the displays, I set my LN46A650 to game mode. It looks horrible, but it made no great improvement to the controls. If you're noticing a big difference, it could be that with the composite connection, there's less lag due to the lower rendering demands of rendering in SD. Anybody care to test that theory?

I noticed a big difference using game mode on my A650, not because I'm using a composite connection. I use HDMI on my A650, my sister uses composite on her set.

Try moving the right stick left and right fairly quickly with game mode on and off. This made it quite noticeable to me.

Again, I only posted this for people with lag issues. A lot of HDTV's are affected by input lag, but not all of them are noticeable. The A650 is known for having pretty bad input lag. I was just throwing it out there. For me, it made a noticeable difference.