Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[Statix]

If my last shooter was Socom PS2 then I'm sure I would be blown away, but it's not.

I'm fairly certain that most Playstation-brand gamers would have already witnessed many much more graphically advanced titles than Socom on PS2 now that we're 3 years into the lifecycle of the PS3 (if you're trying to imply the tired fanboy argument that Playstation gamers aren't used to impressive visuals).

Fyi, the last console that I owned was an Xbox 1, and I played the bejeezus out of all its high-caliber shooters and action games, including DOOM 3 and Splinter Cell. Of course, neither of those can even technically hold a candle to Killzone 2-- and are completely irrelevant to the discussion because they're so dated and inferior in comparison, technically--and Killzone 2 still strikes me as the technically most impressive game that I've seen in this entire console generation thus far.

 

[patsu]

deepbrown, it's not a case of who's right and wrong. I can feel their pain. I think GG should highlight their MP control scheme. Is there an option that's similar/identical to "the rest of the FPSes" ? The MP controls is the scheme most people use beyond the 10 hour SP game.

The campaign mode is different enough that I think they should keep it the way it is.

 

[Scott_Arm]

deepbrown, it's not a case of who's right and wrong. I can feel their pain. I think GG should highlight their MP control scheme. Is there an option that's similar/identical to "the rest of the FPSes" ? The MP controls is the scheme most people use beyond the 10 hour SP game.

The campaign mode is different enough that I think they should keep it the way it is.

This is a big reason why I'd like a multi player demo. If the online controls the way the single player does for me, I won't play it. Right now, I'm not about to take anyone's word for it that the controls are different. I'll believe it when I see it, so to speak.

 

[patsu]

The controls for MP and SP are different.

I'm sure you can find PS3 friends (or rent !) to give it a go though.

 

[DrJay24]

deepbrown, it's not a case of who's right and wrong. I can feel their pain. I think GG should highlight their MP control scheme. Is there an option that's similar/identical to "the rest of the FPSes" ? The MP controls is the scheme most people use beyond the 10 hour SP game.

The campaign mode is different enough that I think they should keep it the way it is.

Am I missing something? Can't you just set it to Alt 2 and be done? You have the control scheme which is common and the only issue with the cover button is non-existent because there is no cover in MP.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Am I missing something? Can't you just set it to Alt 2 and be done? You have the control scheme which is common and the only issue with the cover button is non-existent because there is no cover in MP.

It has nothing to do with button layout.... It has something to do with the aiming setup...

 

[patsu]

Yes, ALT 2 should work if the demo control scheme is all.

I think people want to feel the controls (Whether the lag is truly gone for them in MP).

EDIT: Yeah, the aiming or the dynamics of the controls.

 

[specwarGP2]

And I am awful at shooters. I couldn't use the two sticks until a few years ago - having to move the camera and gun with two different controls was completely unintuitive to me. But I stuck it out. Gawd, I struggled at COD4 - too fast. It took me a while to get used to KZ2, especially the cover system, but it feels great and completely natural as you progress past the demo level.

No offense, but your lack of skill at shooters is why you don't think KZ2 controls suck. Shooters have been around a long time and people who have significant experience with them expect control and feel a particular way. It's like when the NBA decided a few years back to transition to a different basketball made of a different type of synthetic leather. The vast majority of people who play basketball would not even notice or would adjust to the new feel. But for NBA players who've been playing for years with the old ball the difference in feel was huge for many of them it brought their game down a little. Players did not want to readjust because the old ball worked just fine and complained so much that the league went back to the old ball after a month.

My feeling is the same with KZ2 controls. Why make players relearn how to control a game when the current standard is just fine and no one is complaining?

 

[patsu]

... probably because they want to create a certain feel for the campaign game. All the parts (e.g., the elaborate animations and how they react to user action) were crafted as a whole theater experience. The MP control is different for a different experience.

If you feel strongly about the controls (especially the MP one), you might want to attend the Live Chat (in 50 minutes time !) at the official PS blog site.

EDIT: I went through a similar struggle myself from R1 to R2. I think the Resistance transition is worse because the entire game balance has shifted and I can't pinpoint what exactly is different. Took me a few weeks to get back the feel. Bioshock was clumsy at first too. In the end, none of them stopped me from enjoying both games.

In KZ2, it felt intuitive and natural to me even right after a R2 game. So I'm not complaining.

 

[obonicus]

No offense, but your lack of skill at shooters is why you don't think KZ2 controls suck. Shooters have been around a long time and people who have significant experience with them expect control and feel a particular way. It's like when the NBA decided a few years back to transition to a different basketball made of a different type of synthetic leather. The vast majority of people who play basketball would not even notice or would adjust to the new feel. But for NBA players who've been playing for years with the old ball the difference in feel was huge for many of them it brought their game down a little. Players did not want to readjust because the old ball worked just fine and complained so much that the league went back to the old ball after a month.

Okay, who's the NBA in this case? The CPL? Your analogy is ridiculous because there is no standard body. Halo doesn't control like CoD4. Battlefield doesn't control like Counterstrike. Hell, different iterations of Quake or UT don't always control the same.

My feeling is the same with KZ2 controls. Why make players relearn how to control a game when the current standard is just fine and no one is complaining?

Fine, what's the standard? Is this shorthand for 'KZ2 should play like CoD4'?

 

[patsu]

For those who are interested, Live Chat is on now. Go here: http://blog.us.playstation.com/

 

[deepbrown]

No offense, but your lack of skill at shooters is why you don't think KZ2 controls suck. Shooters have been around a long time and people who have significant experience with them expect control and feel a particular way. It's like when the NBA decided a few years back to transition to a different basketball made of a different type of synthetic leather. The vast majority of people who play basketball would not even notice or would adjust to the new feel. But for NBA players who've been playing for years with the old ball the difference in feel was huge for many of them it brought their game down a little. Players did not want to readjust because the old ball worked just fine and complained so much that the league went back to the old ball after a month.

My feeling is the same with KZ2 controls. Why make players relearn how to control a game when the current standard is just fine and no one is complaining?

Oh for gods sake. I should have said I USED to suck - My point was that I relearn controls every day and gets used to it

There is no current standard. Control systems have changed throughout this generation, let alone on consoles themselves. Buy the frikking game and complain about it then - it really isn't an issue. If you struggle at Killzone 2, then maybe YOU suck, or you're meant to struggle - like a soldier struggles. I'm getting headshots left right and centre with EASE. Relearning controls is part of gaming, get used to it.

 

[russo121]

No offense, but your lack of skill at shooters is why you don't think KZ2 controls suck. Shooters have been around a long time and people who have significant experience with them expect control and feel a particular way. It's like when the NBA decided a few years back to transition to a different basketball made of a different type of synthetic leather. The vast majority of people who play basketball would not even notice or would adjust to the new feel. But for NBA players who've been playing for years with the old ball the difference in feel was huge for many of them it brought their game down a little. Players did not want to readjust because the old ball worked just fine and complained so much that the league went back to the old ball after a month.

My feeling is the same with KZ2 controls. Why make players relearn how to control a game when the current standard is just fine and no one is complaining?

I like it very much - it's fair. You don't have advantage over someone who doesn't play often shooters or never played COD - You start from zero like anybody else.
IMO it's a good decision from GG. BTW I didn't notice lag.

 

[DrJay24]

It has nothing to do with button layout.... It has something to do with the aiming setup...

What does "aiming setup" mean? I think the term "MP control scheme" sounds a lot like button layouts.

My feeling is the same with KZ2 controls. Why make players relearn how to control a game when the current standard is just fine and no one is complaining?

What standard? Is it NEMA, IEEE? Every FPS is different, none control 100% the same. If people want Halo 3 the game is on the shelf, I even saw the version with the helmet for $40 at Fry's

And relearn, really? You move the stick and the reticule moves, your brain provides the micro adjustments. In 20 min you will be plenty proficient in SP and a few hours you will be owning people in MP provided you have skill - it's not like everyone else is playing with a different version.

 

[Antan]

http://www.digitalfoundry.org/blog/?p=423

Demo framerate analysis.

 

[patsu]

There is a large pool of gamers who are comfortable with the CoD control schemes. The point is the ALT 2 layout is designed for them. The lag is less noticeable for MP mode in general. Try it out with an open mind. Join a clan if you want to make the best of the experience. You'll likely win more.

As for the campaign, sorry dude; you're the lead actor in KZ2. You're required to buckle up and experience the war theater the way it's crafted (accelerated turning, weighted weapon handling, dancing Helghasts, foggy battlefields, fallen buildings, and all). You should have ample time and options to take out the enemies here. Use your human traits.

 

[specwarGP2]

Oh for gods sake. I should have said I USED to suck - My point was that I relearn controls every day and gets used to it

There is no current standard. Control systems have changed throughout this generation, let alone on consoles themselves. Buy the frikking game and complain about it then - it really isn't an issue. If you struggle at Killzone 2, then maybe YOU suck, or you're meant to struggle - like a soldier struggles. I'm getting headshots left right and centre with EASE. Relearning controls is part of gaming, get used to it.

I'm meant to struggle like a soldier is supposed is supposed to struggle? WTF is that supposed to mean? Kz2 is a game. It's not an armed forces simulator. Furthermore despite your repeated attempts to say otherwise, it's controls are nowhere near realistic. Anyone that's handled real rifles will tell you as much.

As for having a "standard," of course there isn't an official one. But all the major console shooters control very similarly. Aiming in resistance, gears, cod etc requires very little adjustment. What needs to be relearned are maps and tactics.

 

[vanquish]

No offense, but your lack of skill at shooters is why you don't think KZ2 controls suck. Shooters have been around a long time and people who have significant experience with them expect control and feel a particular way. It's like when the NBA decided a few years back to transition to a different basketball made of a different type of synthetic leather. The vast majority of people who play basketball would not even notice or would adjust to the new feel. But for NBA players who've been playing for years with the old ball the difference in feel was huge for many of them it brought their game down a little. Players did not want to readjust because the old ball worked just fine and complained so much that the league went back to the old ball after a month.

My feeling is the same with KZ2 controls. Why make players relearn how to control a game when the current standard is just fine and no one is complaining?

Agree, he's probably one from the PS2 crowd, which had a paucity of good dual stick titles.

If you are like me and have experienced dual stick controls on console shooters, since Halo in 2001. It would be obvious that KZ2's controls are far from optimal.

While the lag/slowness & button layout don't bother me that much they should definitely take out the acceleration, which is just annoying.

 

[scificube]

Someone else's experiences are not minimized simply because you have not had them. Secondly, everyone cannot be pleased, and lastly this isn't rocket science in adjusting to KZ2...its rather normal for any game.

Also, GG certainly can't be blamed for you having to adjust to using a dual shock controller. That's way out of their scope of control.

My goodness...reticule acceleration has nothing to with Playstations or Xboxs. It's purely a developer decision. Acceleration is nothing new either although in most games it does not kick in for 30 to 45 degrees of a constant turn.

 

[patsu]

As for having a "standard," of course there isn't an official one. But all the major console shooters control very similarly. Aiming in resistance, gears, cod etc requires very little adjustment. What needs to be relearned are maps and tactics.

I don't get the soldier comparison but I think what he meant was each game has its own experience. e.g., For me, Bioshock and KZ2 campaign are the more atmospheric ones. They have their own control schemes that I had to adjust to (though rather quickly). Resistance 1, Resistance 2, UT, CoD, and Halo are more pick-up-and-fight games though and through. They each have their own flavor of gameplay (Not sure if there's such a thing as optimal experience).

KZ2 multiplayer seems to be somewhere in between. While I don't think it's wise to alienate a large pool of gamers, I don't necessarily think being different is a bad thing. You'll have to make your purchase decision based on your own call.


EDIT:

Agree, he's probably one from the PS2 crowd, which had a paucity of good dual stick titles.

Then again, you find an introductory KZ2 level "significantly harder" than non-accelerated ones. Everyone has their own quirks. If you keep playing the same (type of) games, it might be harder to adjust to new schemes -- regardless of how large the library is.