Killzone 2 pre-release discussion thread

[vanquish]

Last update from GG regarding control lag issue:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...hread.id=143456&view=by_date_ascending&page=1



Sounds like the animation may be one of the reasons for the weighted response.

I dislike their suggestion of other console shooters are twitchy and arcadey. We have already heard statements that the controls, do not correspond to aiming and firing a weapon in real life, so they aren't necessarily more realistic than other shooters.

Other games using the 'standard' console FPS controls are Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six etc which are all tactical shooters, but don't have controls that are as much a talking point as the game itself.

I'm of the opinion that the best controls are the ones you don't 'notice', they just feel natural.

The fact that they're using different controls for MP and SP, shows that there are flaws (which they have recognised themselves) in the design of the controls.
This is also quite annoying, as you'll have to get used to the MP controls when transitioning from SP, which is unlike any other FPS I've played.

 

[deepbrown]

I dislike their suggestion of other console shooters are twitchy and arcadey. We have already heard statements that the controls, do not correspond to aiming and firing a weapon in real life, so they aren't necessarily more realistic than other shooters.

Other games using the 'standard' console FPS controls are Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six etc which are all tactical shooters, but don't have controls that are as much a talking point as the game itself.

I'm of the opinion that the best controls are the ones you don't 'notice', they just feel natural.

The fact that they're using different controls for MP and SP, shows that there are flaws (which they have recognised themselves) in the design of the controls.
This is also quite annoying, as you'll have to get used to the MP controls when transitioning from SP, which is unlike any other FPS I've played.

They feel perfectly natural - and makes you feel like you're playing in a movie.

The reason they don't feel natural in the demo is because you're still getting over your preconceptions/previous game experiences.

 

[Rangers]

They feel perfectly natural - and makes you feel like you're playing in a movie.

The reason they don't feel natural in the demo is because you're still getting over your preconceptions/previous game experiences.

Nonsense. I didnt like the demo controls at all, although the really strange thing is I'm lot sure why. I just found it really frustrating. So much so my appetite for the full game has been massively decreased.

I think in my case being a long time 360 player, just switching to the DS3 alone is going to require massive re-wiring of my brain..really dont care for it.

One thing I can say with specifics I really dont like about the controls is that A) left button is the cover button and B) you dont "stick" to cover like in Gears, you have to keep holding the button.

I'm not sure I want just another Gears cover clone though, but I think the way it is is terrible, unless I get used to it in the full game and decide otherwise.

 

[BoardBonobo]

I just swapped to Alternate 2 control, it's far more intuitive. I just wished you only had to press L2 to stick to cover though rather than hold it down. I can see myself getting killed alot because I forget about this!

 

[BoardBonobo]

I think in my case being a long time 360 player, just switching to the DS3 alone is going to require massive re-wiring of my brain..really dont care for it.

That's quite funny! How old is the 360 now? Three years? Yet the DS3 layout is basically the same as the original PS1 controller. You must have played with a PS1 or a PS2 and for how many years?

Not having a go, it's just funny to see some equating something with such a short life span to a phrase such as long time 360 player!

 

[deepbrown]

Nonsense. I didnt like the demo controls at all, although the really strange thing is I'm lot sure why. I just found it really frustrating. So much so my appetite for the full game has been massively decreased.

I think in my case being a long time 360 player, just switching to the DS3 alone is going to require massive re-wiring of my brain..really dont care for it.

One thing I can say with specifics I really dont like about the controls is that A) left button is the cover button and B) you dont "stick" to cover like in Gears, you have to keep holding the button.

I'm not sure I want just another Gears cover clone though, but I think the way it is is terrible, unless I get used to it in the full game and decide otherwise.

Umm, well as you play you'll see that the default control scheme is the best.

And you can change both of those bullet points.

And if it's a DS3 complaint...then it's not really relevant.

Honestly the controls fit so well as you play.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

That's quite funny! How old is the 360 now? Three years? Yet the DS3 layout is basically the same as the original PS1 controller. You must have played with a PS1 or a PS2 and for how many years?

Not having a go, it's just funny to see some equating something with such a short life span to a phrase such as long time 360 player!

Maybe he used to play fps games on Xbox 1, which had similar controller. Although I have had all the Playstations, I haven't played that many fps-games on them. On PS2 I remember having Timesplitters 1 and Red Faction, On Xbox I had many fps-games though and I probably wasn't the only one.

 

[ShadowRunner]

The controls felt natural to me, well the aiming anyhow - i had to change zoom from the analogue stick as i kept pressing by accident.

If people dont like the controls thats fine, it doesnt make them bad its just your personal opinion. I think it would be a shame to miss out on the game because of your opinions on the aiming though, once you get into the game you will get used to it. If everyone took that same stance FPSs would never have made the transition fom KB/M to contoll pads in the first place.

 

[Cornsnake]

I just swapped to Alternate 2 control, it's far more intuitive. I just wished you only had to press L2 to stick to cover though rather than hold it down. I can see myself getting killed alot because I forget about this!

You can change that to only pressing L2. But that will also change it for crouching.

 

[patsu]

I dislike their suggestion of other console shooters are twitchy and arcadey. We have already heard statements that the controls, do not correspond to aiming and firing a weapon in real life, so they aren't necessarily more realistic than other shooters.

Other games using the 'standard' console FPS controls are Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six etc which are all tactical shooters, but don't have controls that are as much a talking point as the game itself.

It seems that everything from KZ2 graphics to its gameplay is a talking point. It's certainly not the only game with a different control scheme.

If the dev want to convey a new shooter feel, then so be it. It's part of progress. Sometimes new ideas work, sometimes they don't. The verdict is still out there. The playing field is level for all players anyway.

I'm of the opinion that the best controls are the ones you don't 'notice', they just feel natural.

It feels natural to me. The only initial hurdle is to get used to the new layout. If you're not willing to pick up new schemes, everything else will feel unnatural to various degree.

The fact that they're using different controls for MP and SP, shows that there are flaws (which they have recognised themselves) in the design of the controls.
This is also quite annoying, as you'll have to get used to the MP controls when transitioning from SP, which is unlike any other FPS I've played.

The MP and SP have different game play. MP has no cover mechanics, freeing up one button. Naturally it makes sense to optimize the controls further.

 

[patsu]

Nonsense. I didnt like the demo controls at all, although the really strange thing is I'm lot sure why. I just found it really frustrating. So much so my appetite for the full game has been massively decreased.

I think in my case being a long time 360 player, just switching to the DS3 alone is going to require massive re-wiring of my brain..really dont care for it.

Suit yourself ! ^_^
I switched from Xbox 1 to SIXAXIS to DS3. The SIXAXIS move to DS3 was more "difficult" than I thought. After about a week, all is well again.

One thing I can say with specifics I really dont like about the controls is that A) left button is the cover button and B) you dont "stick" to cover like in Gears, you have to keep holding the button.

Depends on how quickly you need to switch cover in the actual game. I am open either way. I think you can change the setting from the options menu.

I'm not sure I want just another Gears cover clone though, but I think the way it is is terrible, unless I get used to it in the full game and decide otherwise.

Gears is a cover clone itself. The idea came from an earlier game. I see it as progress and improvement. There will always be growing pains.

 

[catisfit]

Maybe he used to play fps games on Xbox 1, which had similar controller. Although I have had all the Playstations, I haven't played that many fps-games on them. On PS2 I remember having Timesplitters 1 and Red Faction, On Xbox I had many fps-games though and I probably wasn't the only one.

He did say "long time 360 player" though - I think that's what BoardBonobo found amusing.

 

[obonicus]

That's quite funny! How old is the 360 now? Three years? Yet the DS3 layout is basically the same as the original PS1 controller. You must have played with a PS1 or a PS2 and for how many years?

Just to be pedantic, the DS1 is a few years younger than the PS1. It's still a 12-year-old controller.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Just to be pedantic, the DS1 is a few years younger than the PS1. It's still a 12-year-old controller.

I was just ignoring the addition of the sticks...

Strangely enough I've just found my PS1 in a box. Makes my thumbs hurt just looking at the controllers!

 

[patsu]

Live Chat with GG today @ noon

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/02/17/killzonecom-live-chat-tomorrow-at-noon-pst/

I’m sure you all have questions about Killzone.com, so Seb “MotherH” Downie of Guerrilla Games, will be here tomorrow on the PlayStation.Blog to answer your questions in a live chat!

So tune in tomorrow, February 18, 2009 at 12 Noon PST for the PlayStation.Blog’s first ever live chat - you won’t wanna miss it.

They didn't exactly pin-point the location. I assume it's blog.us.playstation.com

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I dislike their suggestion of other console shooters are twitchy and arcadey. We have already heard statements that the controls, do not correspond to aiming and firing a weapon in real life, so they aren't necessarily more realistic than other shooters.

Other games using the 'standard' console FPS controls are Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six etc which are all tactical shooters, but don't have controls that are as much a talking point as the game itself.

I'm of the opinion that the best controls are the ones you don't 'notice', they just feel natural.

The fact that they're using different controls for MP and SP, shows that there are flaws (which they have recognised themselves) in the design of the controls.
This is also quite annoying, as you'll have to get used to the MP controls when transitioning from SP, which is unlike any other FPS I've played.

I agree, i think its ridiculous by GG to imply that every other shooter is twitchy and arcady, aspecially when people are not particularly complaining about how slow the sensitivity is, but the fact that the acceleration makes it hard to aim.

This can of course be learned over time, but i dont really see the reason why we should have to. Might aswell just turn the acceleration off or modifiy it, and have the controls behave like they do in 90% of all fps games out there.

You can easily just set the max sensitivity of any game to be as slow as KZ2 anyway, and there are plenty of franchises that have very low sensitivity, but nobody is complaining about the controls...

GG chose a setup which is unusual (but not offering any advantage), which only makes it harder for gamers to adapt.

The realism argument is completely laughable.

And i aslo agree that the fact that MP controls are apparently faster than SP, makes all of GG arguments seem ridiculous. Obviously, something is wrong with aiming, otherwise the two setups would be exactly alike.

 

[patsu]

According to their last post, they took some short cuts in the MP animation (more "twitchy" likely to keep up with fast human actions). The SP ones may be more "cinematic" because GG has almost full control of the battlefield.

Plus the removal of the cover mechanics in MP.

Enough reasons to re-optimize the control scheme.

 

[tha_con]

Meh, each game is different, and I approach each as such. I'm not expecting every game in a given genre to play like every other game, just that I can play it.

I can play KZ2 fine, thus I'm not bothered. If it were unplayable, I would be bothered. Afterall, I don't see folks complaining when DMC isn't NG or isn't GoW, etc. Each is different!

 

[deepbrown]

I agree, i think its ridiculous by GG to imply that every other shooter is twitchy and arcady, aspecially when people are not particularly complaining about how slow the sensitivity is, but the fact that the acceleration makes it hard to aim.

This can of course be learned over time, but i dont really see the reason why we should have to. Might aswell just turn the acceleration off or modifiy it, and have the controls behave like they do in 90% of all fps games out there.

You can easily just set the max sensitivity of any game to be as slow as KZ2 anyway, and there are plenty of franchises that have very low sensitivity, but nobody is complaining about the controls...

GG chose a setup which is unusual (but not offering any advantage), which only makes it harder for gamers to adapt.

The realism argument is completely laughable.

And i aslo agree that the fact that MP controls are apparently faster than SP, makes all of GG arguments seem ridiculous. Obviously, something is wrong with aiming, otherwise the two setups would be exactly alike.

Actually what people have been complainging about has been very shaky and blurred - different explanations are given and all lugged under the title "lag".

And the realism argument ISN'T laughable. The SP is the realistic movie, the MP is the twitchy, speedy, non-realistic part that doesn't feature a cover-system. The controls in the game are just fine and the experience their realism/weightiness give is excellent.

And I am awful at shooters. I couldn't use the two sticks until a few years ago - having to move the camera and gun with two different controls was completely unintuitive to me. But I stuck it out. Gawd, I struggled at COD4 - too fast. It took me a while to get used to KZ2, especially the cover system, but it feels great and completely natural as you progress past the demo level.

 

[deepbrown]

According to their last post, they took some short cuts in the MP animation (more "twitchy" likely to keep up with fast human actions). The SP ones may be more "cinematic" because GG has almost full control of the battlefield.

Plus the removal of the cover mechanics in MP.

Enough reasons to re-optimize the control scheme.

Patsu gets it right once again.