Formula 1 - 2012 Season

How would you have made it relevant for Spa since he retired on lap four?
I think the officials were quite busy with the big crash until Maldonado retired, had he still been in the race, I'm sure he would have gotten a stop and go or something like that.
As for Maldonado, remember he was given a 3 place grid penalty for Spa. This was at the discretion of the stewards. They should have given him a reprimand but because of his previous penalties would actually have given him a 10 place grid penalty instead.

This is in effect what he is receiving at Monza now. The stewards gave him leeway and he abused it.
 
I still think there should be a distinction between what constitutes overly agressive driving, dangerous maneuvers that could severly endanger people and what are honest mistakes, for lack of a better word racing incidents that just happen in the heat of battle.

I'm just not sure I think drivers should be punished for every little mistake they make, especially post-race. Penalize them if they do something wrong, like knowingly push people off the track etc. A jump start, I still think is overly harsh, to penalize at the next race. I also don't think that Maldonado's 3 place grid penalty for impeeding a car in qualifying and his jump start are directly related. If the stewards feel that Maldonado should be punished for the amount of incidents, then IMO they should penalize him directly for that and not stick some penalty to what in my mind is a minor incident.

I think there's an argument to be made that Grosjean and Maldonado have been involved in a number of incidents this year and therefore may deserve being spoken to and met with some form of punishment - but if this is the case, the people in charge should address this as it is and not over-penalize minor incidents.

I think it's daft and I'm sure if Alonso were the one to have made a jump start and then suffer DNF (perhaps not through a collision but perhaps in a similar crash where he is innocent), I'm not convinced he would have received the same 5-place grid penalty Maldonado is receiving. The inconsistency regarding punishments are annoying and confusing.
 
Phil, not sure if you are correct.

In any case this (Grosjean) guy is a repeat offender so is the other guy (Maldanado) - it is better that through punishment they stop doing what they are doing as they are fantastic drivers otherwise.

As to the punishment for Grosjean being overly harsh? He was SEEN by all to be taking a keen look at the replay and when asked for his opinion on the situation replies, he still needs to see the replay before making any judgement. Pull the other one - it's got bells on it.

Anyway.. what do you guys think of Hamilton posting sensitive telemetry data via twitter? Oh dear what a foolish mistake that was. Anyone else in a different position would probably be looking at a P45 (google it.)
 
Apparently, Hamilton's Aunt (to whom he was very close) died last week after a long illness and he had spent some time at her bedside during the week.

His various twitter shenanigans over the weekend would indicate to me that he wasn't really in a good frame of mind on Sunday and probably shouldn't have been racing...
 
Regarding Monza, it's curious to see who'll be driving Lotus in the end - sure, they have d'Ambrosio is their official reserve driver, but he hasn't driven a single practice session this year apparently, so it might be more sensible for Lotus to loan a driver from some other teams reserves, who have driven several practices this season, it's not unheard of that teams would loan driver from another team (like Ferrari even getting a racing driver from another team mid-season to replace Massa because Badoer just sucked)

*fingers crossed for Bottas, he deserves a chance in the big league finally, Williams definitely wouldn't say no for the extra money, and Renault provides engines for both which makes them maybe just a small bit closer as teams*
 
IMO, right after he got back to the pits, he should have watched the replay and come out with an apology taking the blame for causing the accident. That would have been a lot better than to say "not sure yet who was to blame - will have to watch the replay first", even if perhaps the outcome of the punishment might have been the same
After they showed the replays, the BBC showed him watching the live feed on the pit wall so we know for a fact he saw the replay
 
After they showed the replays, the BBC showed him watching the live feed on the pit wall so we know for a fact he saw the replay
But you don't for a fact know the sequence of events. Maybe he was thrown straight into the press corral and then he went to the pit wall.
 
With the way the stewards investigations are being held these days, and after Hamilton's faux pas in Australia a few years ago, I think drivers are being coached to say less and less conerning an incident right after it happened so that they don't say something that could influence the stewards or compromise the investigation.
 
But you don't for a fact know the sequence of events. Maybe he was thrown straight into the press corral and then he went to the pit wall.
Doubtful. They played the interview 20 minutes later. They would not of waited that long to play it. It's more likely his team told him to say nothing while they trawled through the telemetry to try and find him an excuse to use.
 
I was at Spa this weekend (my first visit to a grand prix). No TV coverage could possibly do justice to just how awesome the sound of all of the cars sitting on the grid waiting to start is.
 
It is an interesting topic, the Grosjean penalty.

I may have to reconsider, given that there is word that Grosjean has been involved in at least 7 incidents at the start of races in this years season. While I've watched all races this year, I can't say that Grosjean has made that kind of impression on me and I'm not sure if he was to blame in all 7 incidents either. He's agressive, yes, but IMO not overly agressive. He's impressed me a lot and even before this season started, I thought Grosjean will be impressive and I was particularly interested to see how he will compare as Kimis team-mate.

I feel different about Maldonado. Last year when he took a deliberate swipe at Hamilton at Spa after La Source in Qualifying, which I thought was dangerous and should have been severly penalized (it was not). Since then, and especially this year, he has caused a few incidents which have compromised others races (thinking of Perez here).

In my book - Maldonado had a ban coming way before Grosjean.

What irks me the wrong way about the stewarding in F1 is that it feels to me that it's dependant on public reaction, rather on what is allowed and what isn't. To me, it feels Grosjean is being banned because his crash (which was an error in judgment) could have resulted in a fatality. In truth, I think they've been worse incidents (with more intent) that could have been worse, but as it happened turned out way less dangerous.

Grosjean had a good start, pulled up next to Lewis (due to Kobayashi holding up the left side of the grid) and as per his own comments, thought he had put a sufficient gap between him [and Lewis] and moved to the right. Watching the replay, it looks to me that Grosjean had a better start than Lewis and both of them drove parallel to each other when Grosjean moved over to the right, slightly ahead of Lewis, not seeing him, and attempting to move into the gap on the right. You can't see everything in a F1 car, let alone at the start of the race. You often have people, even experienced drivers, moving across trying to find the best possible angle. I would say many of these maneuvers are down to a bit of 'luck' and it's been kind of extraordinary that we've had so few incidents at the start of races in the past few seasons. When multiple things go wrong at a start of the race though, like Kobayashi with overheated brakes and a bad start, Maldonado jumping the start, sometimes a chain reaction resulting in a crash like the one Grosjean caused are inevitable. These are racing drivers and we expect them to a certain degree to race, fight for positions, while remaining respectful and think their maneuvers through.

Formula 1 is a dangerous sport - it always has been. Not penalizing Grosjean might have sent the wrong message (and I'm not arguing that they should have done that vs. what they did), I agree, but for arguments sake, I think I'd rather have 'harsh punishments' for actions with intent (like the deliberate swipe Maldonado did on Lewis last year) or where rules are broken black on white, then dependant on how 'spectacular' the result of a crash may be. We've had many starts with worse maneuvers but less consequences result in zero reprimands or punishments.

It's a tricky situation and it's amazing that through that huge crash, Alonso was miraculously unharmed. Maybe the question is - can you make an inherently dangerous sport safer by punishing when big crashes happen? If the cause of the crash is due to an action with dangerous intent, then yes - but if it's just a result of multiple things going wrong at the same time leading to a chain of events? hmm... :???:
 
You can't see everything in a F1 car, let alone at the start of the race.

You shouldn't throw your car around blindly.

Even more so at the start of the race, where you can be 99% certain that a car will occupy the part of the track 'you can't see'.

Formula 1 is a dangerous sport - it always has been.
Actually, there has only been two fatalities in F1 races in the past 30 years, Senna and Ratzenberger at San Marino in '94. Considering the kinetic energies involved, it is incredibly safe.

Cheers
 
You shouldn't throw your car around blindly.

Even more so at the start of the race, where you can be 99% certain that a car will occupy the part of the track 'you can't see'.


Actually, there has only been two fatalities in F1 races in the past 30 years, Senna and Ratzenberger at San Marino in '94. Considering the kinetic energies involved, it is incredibly safe.

Cheers
It isn't safe, it's safer. It can never be safe. Massa almost died in Hungary 2009, Kubica could have died in Canada 2007, Ralf Schumacher could have died at Indianapolis 2004 when he fractured his spine.

It is very dangerous, saying it is safe and washing ones hands is how the next fatality will occur. Safety has to be prioritised all the time.
 
Gubbi, I very much disagree with the notion that there need to be fatalities to show that F1 is indeed a dangerous sport. It is incredibly safe for what it is, especially given how the cars and tracks have been improved to reduce as much risk as possible, yet when you see crashes like the one Kubica endured in 2007, or Webber when he flipped over, Perez in Monaco etc. I think it's quite apparent how little needs to go wrong for something seriously bad to happen. We've been incredibly fortunate since Senna and Ratzenberger, but any form of sport where a crash like the one on Sunday can happen, meets my definition of dangerous.

On the topic of Grosjean:
You are of course right - one must assume there to be other cars next to you at the start of races. Yet, we've seen Vettel swipe/weaving immediately to the side at the start of races deliberately and fully aware of someone being there without any form of punishment countless times. The last instant that comes to mind being when he pushed Hamilton (or was it Button?) onto the grass and we were told that the "single change of line rule doesn't apply at the start".
 
It is very dangerous, saying it is safe and washing ones hands is how the next fatality will occur. Safety has to be prioritised all the time.

You completely ignored the predicate of the statement, I didn't state it was safe outright.

Cheers
 
You said it was incredibly safe.

Come on Bludd. "Considering the kinetic energies involved, it is incredibly safe".

You're taking the comment out of context. It's obvious that Gubbi is saying that in the context of what is a pretty dangerous sport (i.e. where you're travelling at speeds above 200mph) it is incredibly safe.
 
IMO, they should consider running/flying starts for select tracks, Spa being one of them. In the past five years, only 2010 hasn't produced retirements/contact in the first corner.

TBH, I always wondered why they changed the start/pits position from after La Source to before (at least for F1 races). Never seemed such a good idea to me.
 
Come on Bludd. "Considering the kinetic energies involved, it is incredibly safe".

You're taking the comment out of context. It's obvious that Gubbi is saying that in the context of what is a pretty dangerous sport (i.e. where you're travelling at speeds above 200mph) it is incredibly safe.
But it isn't safe! That's like saying guns are safe because kevlar exists.

Whatever, I see where he's coming from and I totally disagree, but Gubbi you are entitled to your opinion and I'm bowing out of this particular discussion.
 
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