Formula 1 - 2012 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
itsmydamnation
Veteran
you have to remember they changed the rules 1/2 into THIS season after what Rosberg was doing to everyone.
Alonso gave much more room, just find footage to verify. It is not comparable also as Alonso was totally off the track.
Actually they changed it later than that, IIRC it was some case where Hamilton was either pushed out or pushed someone out
I wouldn't call it much more room, it was less than a metre more; Vettel had a set of wheels off track.
I'm not disputing the call given the new rule set, I just think Alonso would have been penalized last year if they had driven by the same rules.
Cheers
After done some googling, even if Rosbergs "incidents" were part of the reason for rule changes, they would still be legal after the rule clarification, which was issued before British GP this year
But that's not related to the "pushing other off the track", which hasn't been changed mid-season, they only clarified what the "significant portion of the car" is (front wing ahead of the rear wing of the guy who you're passing)
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Well that would be 50% more room, doesnt sound that unreasonable if you look at it like that 
I'm pretty sure itsmydamnation is correct - the incident he is refering to with Rosberg involved both Hamilton and Alonso at the same race (Bahrain). It created a bit of controversy because Hamilton completed the pass off track while Alonso aborted his and complained over the radio. The incidents were looked at post-race which I think influenced the decisions to clarify the rules.
Possibly, but it took quite a long time if it did - regardless, what Rosberg did is still allowed by rules, as stewards said back then, Rosberg moved that side before Hamilton/Alonso started their overtake moves
Billy Idol
Legend
sorry, but you do not understand the rule...
I'm quite sure everyone is aware of the rules, but there's also the factor of was Vettel even aware that Alonso would be trying such suicide-manouver?
Yes, he's not allowed to force him off the track, but it's not like he did it on purpose, most likely he never knew Alonso is there.
And still, stewards ignored Alonso pushing di Resta out on the first lap, "giving some leeway" is no excuse when Alonso has empty track next to him
What about Kimi on the first lap, first corner (La Source) at Spa 2009? No leeway = drive through for gaining an advantage off the track, and overtaking off the track, maybe 10 second stop-go penalty in total for both? Bye-bye to victory.
Billy Idol
Legend
The problem is: he did not force him from the track. There was no steering from Vettel towards Alonsos direction imo. He stayed on his line means, that he did no extra steering action to push alonso from the track. It does not matter if it was the line he took the round before, that is completely irrelevant for the rule - it was Alonsos fault for being to risky. By the way, this is the same argument why Alonso did not get a penalty last year, he did stay on his line. And the decision last year was correct imo, in contrast to the decision this year.
But we cannot change it, no point in discussing this further imo...
Because it was a first lap incident, it occurred during the first few corners and it didn't result in anything bad except Di Resta not getting ahead. This has been a part of F1 for many, many years. For example Kimi Räikkönen at La Source on lap 1 in 2009.
It is a pragmatic stance by the FIA because if they didn't do this, they would spend too much time going over first lap and first corner incidents. The cars are too bunched up, they are squabbling and this is the only way to do it if you want human involvement in the stewarding.
Looks like there's a big chance that Lewis may indeed be moving on from McLaren.
If this does happen - while I think his managment has a big influence in getting the 'right deal' - I'm still not convinced this is just about money or him growing as a brand.
IMO there is some 'resentment' from the team towards Lewis. Maybe it's because of his image, maybe it's his attitude, maybe it's because of his managment, maybe it's because his teammate is so much more liked (being more experienced, older and mature)... maybe it's a bit of everything. The tweet surely didn't make things better.
I would love for him to stay with McLaren, but my gut feeling is telling me Lewis is moving on.
On a positive note - maybe Mercedes GP will be the team to be in come 2014 with the new engine regs.
If this does happen - while I think his managment has a big influence in getting the 'right deal' - I'm still not convinced this is just about money or him growing as a brand.
IMO there is some 'resentment' from the team towards Lewis. Maybe it's because of his image, maybe it's his attitude, maybe it's because of his managment, maybe it's because his teammate is so much more liked (being more experienced, older and mature)... maybe it's a bit of everything. The tweet surely didn't make things better.
I would love for him to stay with McLaren, but my gut feeling is telling me Lewis is moving on.
On a positive note - maybe Mercedes GP will be the team to be in come 2014 with the new engine regs.
I think it is part of contract negotiations.
Lewis has ambitions, - he wants to win championships. That implies one of three teams currently: McLaren, Red Bull or Ferrari.
I'm sure we can agree him signing with Ferrari and teaming up with Alonso again has a very low order of probability.
Similar with a shift to Red Bull: He'd have to compete with Vettel, who is much more important to RB's germanic base than he'll ever be. He doesn't want to be the next Mark Webber.
He has matured and been driving really well this year and if it weren't for the pit gaffes in the start of the season he would have lead the championship now. If there is resentment I guess it goes both ways; the McLaren team didn't perform in the first third of the season, unlike the cars and drivers.
Mercedes or Lotus/Renault is much more unlikely.
I expect him to get a record contract: Huge salary and a chunk of merchandise sales (like Schumachers old Ferrari deal).
Cheers
Lewis has ambitions, - he wants to win championships. That implies one of three teams currently: McLaren, Red Bull or Ferrari.
I'm sure we can agree him signing with Ferrari and teaming up with Alonso again has a very low order of probability.
Similar with a shift to Red Bull: He'd have to compete with Vettel, who is much more important to RB's germanic base than he'll ever be. He doesn't want to be the next Mark Webber.
He has matured and been driving really well this year and if it weren't for the pit gaffes in the start of the season he would have lead the championship now. If there is resentment I guess it goes both ways; the McLaren team didn't perform in the first third of the season, unlike the cars and drivers.
Mercedes or Lotus/Renault is much more unlikely.
I expect him to get a record contract: Huge salary and a chunk of merchandise sales (like Schumachers old Ferrari deal).
Cheers
Gubbi - it seems McLaren is not able to fullfill his wishes on huge salary (due to an increase in costs, as they will need to pay for the Mercedes engines in the future) and there are rumours that Vodaphone may be decreasing their sponsorship. From what I've read, McLaren are also reluctant to give him more leeway on private sponsoring - they have been traditionally very strict (for reasons I can't quite figure out).
This may be all due to contract negotiations, but to me it looks McLaren can't afford (or doesn't want to) to meet salary demands and are even suggesting a pay cut - and pushing the angle that they are a top team and the only team that is able to offer Lewis a probable race-winning seat.
At the end of the day, what I find more worring than any talk about money or being able to keep the real trophies is that he does not seem to get on well with the team anymore. I've had this feeling ever since Whitmarsh got Jenson into the team and I think there may be more to it than what is known in public domain.
There was an article in German "Spiegel Magazine" on this topic specifically and there were a few interesting comments. One of them specifically that the scandal regarding Hamiltons tweeting of telemetry data caused quite a stir within the team - and apparently, quite a few within the team are "fuming". This may be intepretation on behalf of the german magazine, but if there is any truth to it, it to me sounds like there are deeper problems within the relationship of Lewis and his team.
Anyway, no facts here nor insider knowlege, just a gut feeling...
EDIT: Just wanted to add (and felt it would be more appropriate to add it as an edit than another post), that while Hamiltons ambitions are clear - I think the issue may be that he can't share his ambitions with his team. Perhaps in other worlds - a higher pay (or more sucess) is not always (more) rewarding if there's something wrong in the working environment.
James Allen has something written up
Spiegel.de on Hamilton and why he may move to Mercedes
This may be all due to contract negotiations, but to me it looks McLaren can't afford (or doesn't want to) to meet salary demands and are even suggesting a pay cut - and pushing the angle that they are a top team and the only team that is able to offer Lewis a probable race-winning seat.
At the end of the day, what I find more worring than any talk about money or being able to keep the real trophies is that he does not seem to get on well with the team anymore. I've had this feeling ever since Whitmarsh got Jenson into the team and I think there may be more to it than what is known in public domain.
There was an article in German "Spiegel Magazine" on this topic specifically and there were a few interesting comments. One of them specifically that the scandal regarding Hamiltons tweeting of telemetry data caused quite a stir within the team - and apparently, quite a few within the team are "fuming". This may be intepretation on behalf of the german magazine, but if there is any truth to it, it to me sounds like there are deeper problems within the relationship of Lewis and his team.
Anyway, no facts here nor insider knowlege, just a gut feeling...
EDIT: Just wanted to add (and felt it would be more appropriate to add it as an edit than another post), that while Hamiltons ambitions are clear - I think the issue may be that he can't share his ambitions with his team. Perhaps in other worlds - a higher pay (or more sucess) is not always (more) rewarding if there's something wrong in the working environment.
James Allen has something written up
Spiegel.de on Hamilton and why he may move to Mercedes
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tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I don't see why mclaren should give in to Hamilton. If he really wants to win he has no choice but mclaren. Mercedes is the only team that might be willing to hire Hamilton and pay mr. hollywood boy what he wants but a) that would depend on what schumi does as he has way, way more value to merc than Hamilton and b) I don't see them competing with mclaren/ferrari/rbr for championships.
Besides, it's not like mclaren can't do withouth him. Button might not belong to the absolute top drivers but he has shown that he can do a good enough job and it won't be hard to find a decent enough driver to replace hamilton.
Though I wouldnt mind seeing him go somewhere else. The less I see of him the better.
Besides, it's not like mclaren can't do withouth him. Button might not belong to the absolute top drivers but he has shown that he can do a good enough job and it won't be hard to find a decent enough driver to replace hamilton.
Though I wouldnt mind seeing him go somewhere else. The less I see of him the better.
