Formula 1 - 2018 Season

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kaotik, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. tongue_of_colicab

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    10 year olds push harder on the school playground. And look at that low life grin on Ocons face.

    Enjoy your crossants next year.
     
  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    That penalty was wrong on so many levels it's not even funny, but considering what the stewards have been doing rest of the weekend no surprise there (Hamilton didn't get anything for 2 more or less dangerous blocks in qualifying, Vettel nothing real for the scale-shenanigans)

    Going by the rulebook, Ocon had every right to be where he was, you can unlap yourself, and you can't block another driver off the track or crash to them, which is exactly what Verstappen was doing when he turned into Ocon.
    Now, should Ocon have been there? No, he should have done the pass on the next straight, but he still had every right to be there.
    Also, Hamilton commented pretty much spot-on about it in the cool-down room: He had nothing to lose, you had everything to lose. Verstappen needs a lot more maturity, like shown so many times this season.

     
  3. tongue_of_colicab

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    The right to unlap yourself in a safe manner just like a green light give you the right to go but doesn't mean it gives you the right to run over a bunch of pedestrians.

    Look, we all know you have some mental issues but claiming Verstappen turned into Ocon means it's pretty much time to put you into that padded room.

    Please post a video showing Verstappen not well ahead and turning into Ocon.

    Ocon is a retarded. Again, allowed to unlap yourself or not, you got to be very daft to send one up the inside of the race leader when you are down in 16th racing for nothing.
     
  4. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
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    I couldn't believe Horner said (to Sky Sports, on live TV) that Ocon was lucky to get away with just a shove, and that the interviewers didn't object in the slightest. Some ESPN F1 UK website guy parroted the same thing. I know F1 has American owners, but I didn't think it would turn into NASCAR so quickly.

    My initial reaction was that Ocon should be black flagged, but replays and the realization that apparently backmarkers can unlap themselves have softened my view. Ocon was all the way over and IIRC partially alongside, and Max drove across him under the assumption he would just get out of the way. So, Max misjudged it. I only saw the corners, though. I don't know if Max passed him on the back straight and then Ocon came back at him, which would seem like a black flag offense. I mean, why have blue flags for back markers if they can just keep leap frogging back in front of the leaders?

    But I appreciate the richness of Max calling someone out for attempting a pass they shouldn't have. To think, the announcers marveled that Max had finally added patience to his portfolio of skills sometime during the race.

    Do the same stewards who decide in-race punishment also decide pre- and post-race punishment? Because they let both Vettel and Verstappen get away with slaps on the wrist for technical infractions. They seemed to err on the side of generosity for all three incidents. I even forgot about Hamilton's crazy jukes.

    Tongue, one doesn't have to be a stupid whiner to say Verstappen crashes a lot and acts bratty. It's the truth. He's young, so it's not unexpected, but it's constantly being excused, which is annoying. Other drivers (including Hamilton, who gets his elbows out) have said they avoid Max because he's likely to hit you. While that reputation can be useful to Max, it's disappointing F1 hasn't penalized him for it. He's benefiting from it. Red Bull can't hide his self-inflicted on-track point losses behind a crap engine anymore. It looks like they've closed in on Merc and Ferrari even with their Renaults. If Honda's up on power, RB will be in a three-way fight for the title next year. If Max doesn't see any value in self-criticism, maybe he could learn something from Vettel's poor decision making for the past year or so.

    "Low life grin?" Do you think responding in kind would have been the high road? You're taking Max's loss of a race win way too personally. No one's racing for nothing in F1.

    Well, maybe Stroll.
     
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  5. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    There you go, probably can't be embedded because it's F1


    In the F1 rules if you have front wing (or was it front tires?) next to rear tires of the other guy you're entitled to be left room. When Verstappen turned into Ocon he had his front tires next to the sidepods, so way more than required.
    Also, it would have been in a safe manner if it the other driver had any respect for rest of the field, that corner has been the spotlight of many, many similar overtaking manouvers (the fact that it was about unlapping doesn't change anything in the sense of rules).
     
  6. tongue_of_colicab

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    Look at the onboard shot from Ocons car when he crashed into Verstappen, you can even see a blue flag from there. Verstappen was in front (by like half a car) and on the racing line. You can try and twist it whatever way you want but a lapped driver down in 16th not racing anyone has no business trying to lunge up the inside of the race leader. You are allowed to unlap yourself, but not in an unsafe manner. If Ocon really was faster he could have waited a couple of corners and get in done on the straight.

    Anyway there is no point in arguing this as most apparently are unable to understand a back marker racing for nothing shouldn't interfere with the race leader. None of you would have said the same if it was any other driver.
     
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  7. Bludd

    Bludd Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
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    Funny, It Worked Last Time...
    nvm I can't be bothered :)
     
  8. Bludd

    Bludd Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
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  9. entity279

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    But that's the crux of it, do the regs specifically add restrictions on overtakes done to unlap oneself or not?

    All overtakes need to be performed in a safe manner anyway, no argument there.
     
  10. cjo

    cjo
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    I don't think what Hamilton said to Verstappen was blaming him. I think it was advice that just because something shouldn't happen doesn't mean it won't happen and that there can be an advantage to being more careful around backmarkers.
     
  11. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    As far as I'm aware, the rules don't make a distinction between overtakes and unlapping overtakes.

    Verstappen was about half a car length ahead since he hit Ocons front tire around middle of the car, but that's way more than required to be counted as being on side where you need to leave room - just having your frontwing (or was it front tire?) on the level of the rear tires of the car ahead is enough for that.
     
  12. Arnold Beckenbauer

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  13. cjo

    cjo
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    They don't make a distinction. However, given the blue flag rules (lapped drivers basically have to set aside their race to let the leaders through), it's clearly the intention of the rules as a whole that the lapped drivers don't interfere with the leading drivers race.
     
  14. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Of course they're not supposed to interfere with the leading drivers, but blue flags don't give the right for a leading driver to just ignore the backmarkers either
    That corner has been driven countless times with 2 drivers driving next to each other and Max surely had to be aware that no-one would just kick in full brakes after being already half past you when you enter the corner. The blue flag (light) shown before corner isn't relevant for the case, since it doesn't mean you have to give room on the very same second or even the next corner

    edit:
    Peter Windsor's take on the case


    tl;dw: Maxes fault, FIA was wrong and their suggestion of "safe unlapping" is ridicilous because you could only unlap on straights
     
    #415 Kaotik, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  15. Bludd

    Bludd Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
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    #416 Bludd, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
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  16. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
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    Really surprising. I’d love to see what he can do, but I hope they’re not expecting another poor season and using this feel-good story as a distraction.
     
  17. Bludd

    Bludd Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
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    Heads will roll if they have another bad car I think. It will probably show how much Paddy Lowe owns in stock if he stays or goes if the car is bad.
     
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  18. Lightman

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    I've waited almost 8 years for this comeback! As someone who followed Robert's racing career from 2005 I can be sure he wouldn't be trying to get F1 drive if he felt he lost speed. Kubica is his worst critic, as it should be!
    The last few days people started talking a bit more and confirmed that last year in RB sim KUB was Verstappen and Ricciardo fast, but that's simulator.
    He will push Williams car to the limit and in Russel he gets really good benchmark, so the only disappointment I might have next season is how bad FW42 turns out to be! I hope not that bad, at least Hass level would be nice.

    Next season shapes up to be better than this, and that's even without Kubica news, so honestly I can't wait!
     
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  19. Bludd

    Bludd Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
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    So that's a wrap. An unbeatable Hamilton, a Vettel making mistakes, an icy cool but at last winning Räikkönen, a raging Verstappen, a Bottas not really delivering even though Merc won the constructors', an unlucky Ricciardo, a best-of-the-rest Hülkenberg, a solid Pérez, a fighting Magnussen, a hopeful McLaren-bound Sainz, a see-you-later? Alonso, a controversial Ocon, an exciting up-and-comer Leclerc, a mercurial Grosjean, a hopeful Red Bull-bound Gasly, a downtrodden Vandoorne, a departing Ericsson, a daddy Stroll with a new team and a Stroll driving for daddy, a departing Hartley and a departing Sirotkin.
     
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