First Killzone screenshot/details? So says USAToday..

[patsu]

It certainly looks very good!

the only thing I disagree with in this thread is when people say looks like it is doing things not done before.

If you have played Next Gen games in the past year you have seen many of the elements present in this game in other games.

Some of the hyperbole IMO comes form those who are experiencing Next Gen for the first time recently with these new PS3 games and not really knowing what was being done on the other Next Gen system for the past year and a half.

I agree ! But I also think that many people tried to exagerate or put down something based on their preconception and some screenshots. For many of these effects, you need to play the game to really experience it. Having a bullet point of "feature XXX is in this game too" does not tell me much about how well/convincing they apply it in-game, whether it's always on, or whether it sacrificed other aspects to achieve this level of effects, etc. As I mentioned, in general, it is very difficult to "do everything right".

In addition there are subtle points and unnamed techniques that make a game what it is. I think great titles like Halo 1 and Resistance all have their own secret sauce so to speak.

Also when someone says this is great, don't assume that they haven't played it on competing platforms. Basically it's subjective and I second the post above... we should discuss more about KZ itself rather than these initial knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Neb]

I personaly want to talk more about how KZ devs are acheiving all the effects/animation is going on. We know as well that atleast 2 SPE's are being used for geometry, it would be nice to speculate what they could be doing, is it destructible environments, assisting RSX ect.

I assume that having lots of destructible objects equals more polygons to be rendered. This since the pieces and parts (debris) has to have a special form (look like debris and not square) and this will require quite a bit more of geometry.
Now I dont know if the objects are built up by debris pieces or if the object model changes when hit to another model with all the debris pieces built-in. I guess the former is better to avoid seing the model swap but will require more RAM and up the polygon count. :smile:

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

Terarrim (+rep if the system was still up)

 

[betan]

Heh I dont think it will add much to the game's visuals. I mean...looking at the game in motion it looks so good already in its entirety. These are so insignificant that I think the addition of a "better lod system" or more normal mapped textures will be there only to reduce the critic's chances of finding any more excuses to complain about since they are ridiculously trying too hard.

I think the LOD system is working smoothly and efficiently.

What LoD system?
Seriously, not having a LoD system limits both draw distance and number of characters on screen. What kind of war game would it be with only eight characters on screen?
Of course we only saw the demo, but I certainly hope it will have a scalable one.

Usually games such as Gears or other games with a heavy LoD system, didnt always have a smooth transition in detail. In many cases the models and environments seem to pop their geometry detail too suddenly or delay it. In some other occasions you could notice the reduction of texture and geometry detail in objects as they moved farther. You almost felt that you could count their level of detail transitions.

That is not what I would call an advanced LoD system at all.

Thats probably why medium and long distant objects look more detailed than close objects.
I think that the character models though maintain a high level of polygon detail even close.

Certainly it looks like it, as I said somewhere else .
That, along with more obvious lighting and dramatic animation, is also one of the reasons people think in-game scenes are better than cinematic opening.

Now if people who are totally unntrested in the game, or are being made angry because some of the statment being made (because they disagree), I really don't understand why they post (or even read) this thread at all.

Obviously they have an interest in the game, not necessarily playing the game.
But I have to say, I don't agree with "if you don't want to game, don't post here" notion.
Everyone should be welcome to discuss anything, even compare to other games within reasonable level of objectivity.

 

[NERO]

For all I know this has been posted, but members might at the very least find it cute. It is a comparison of the 05 trailer to 07 gameplay. The former is inset.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21609.html

 

[pakotlar]

Blah Blah

Comes down to taste differences in some cases like you said. I haven't seen evidence of the revolutionary light engine, but it very well maybe that this level was just not a good showcase for it. I know that PGR3 had a very nice light engine, but did not show well in night levels. That being said, the only thing I didn't appreciate was the reliances on shitty rim lighting in the middle section. In some other parts it looks very life like imo.

There are definetely posts on here and other sites that reek of fanboyism. I'm not saying that it couldn't just be guys and girls that are overly enthusiastic about something that really resonates with them, but it seems like the descriptions use a lot of hyperbolic statements about a marginally better product than what we've seen from other devs.

I very much agree Nesh about what you said about personal taste. I think a good example is Resistance. I know that a good deal of people very much enjoyed the clean cut, sharply lit, minimalist graphics, while other chagrined them. Same with Halo, Gears, and others, though some to lesser extent than Resistance.

And, once again, I'm sure that many rough spots will get worked out. I think that in the end it will be a very good looking product, though I have my doubts that the texture work was largely placeholders. I know that some PS3 products have struggled with high-res textures for whatever reason, and I would hope that KZ2 does use higher-res assets than what we've seen in some of the showcased scenes.

Thanks for the detailed reply too.

 

[Terarrim]

Obviously they have an interest in the game, not necessarily playing the game.
But I have to say, I don't agree with "if you don't want to game, don't post here" notion.
Everyone should be welcome to discuss anything, even compare to other games within reasonable level of objectivity.

Point taken your right (discuss everything as long as people are not trying to stop people being exited, or accuse people of being "fanboys" and hyping up games)

 

[Neb]

Point taken your right (discuss everything as long as people are not trying to stop people being exited, or accuse people of being "fanboys" and hyping up games)

As long as things are kept real. Talking, explaining thoughts, having something to back up claims and so on. There is nothing to be gained by hyping something beyond what it is as that will in the end only fool the end player. And most important, seeing things for what they are not what one wishes they are! :smile:

So anybody think the fire in the 'gun rod' video (the burning gun rubble) is affected by a wind system and do you think it is particles?

 

[DieH@rd]

As you know on Sony Pressconf there was 2 screens with trailer and 2 screens with realtime play by the developer. Here is the footage of that dev play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7APPge9mDUM

So far this is only video that shows cover sistem, and some previousley unseen parts of the level. Animation is sick!

 

[Neb]

So far this is only video that shows cover sistem, and some previousley unseen parts of the level. Animation is sick!

The cover system in this game is wonderful (from the looks). Makes so much better than kneeling down as done in most other games. Hope they use this type more in other games to. :smile:

 

[Nesh]

Comes down to taste differences in some cases like you said. I haven't seen evidence of the revolutionary light engine, but it very well maybe that this level was just not a good showcase for it. I know that PGR3 had a very nice light engine, but did not show well in night levels. That being said, the only thing I didn't appreciate was the reliances on shitty rim lighting in the middle section. In some other parts it looks very life like imo.

There are definetely posts on here and other sites that reek of fanboyism. I'm not saying that it couldn't just be guys and girls that are overly enthusiastic about something that really resonates with them, but it seems like the descriptions use a lot of hyperbolic statements about a marginally better product than what we've seen from other devs.

I very much agree Nesh about what you said about personal taste. I think a good example is Resistance. I know that a good deal of people very much enjoyed the clean cut, sharply lit, minimalist graphics, while other chagrined them. Same with Halo, Gears, and others, though some to lesser extent than Resistance.

And, once again, I'm sure that many rough spots will get worked out. I think that in the end it will be a very good looking product, though I have my doubts that the texture work was largely placeholders. I know that some PS3 products have struggled with high-res textures for whatever reason, and I would hope that KZ2 does use higher-res assets than what we've seen in some of the showcased scenes.

Thanks for the detailed reply too.

I doubt the textures will change much too. I think they made room for other things.

 

[MonkeyLicker]

For me Killzone quickly fell apart as soon as I watched the trailer and real gameplay videos on my HDTV. This game looks much better in small video and pics.
Unfortunately, we won't be playing it like that.

 

[morlock]

For me Killzone quickly fell apart as soon as I watched the trailer and real gameplay videos on my HDTV. This game looks much better in small video and pics.
Unfortunately, we won't be playing it like that.

For me it was the opposit after watching the 300MB HD-trailer from my PS3 on my HD-projector - Holy F crap it looks good! There is something about this game that really gives it a look thats far from the other games. It feels organic and much less stiff or something, hard to put my finger on it.

Really looking forward to it.

 

[patsu]

I'm not saying that it couldn't just be guys and girls that are overly enthusiastic about something that really resonates with them, but it seems like the descriptions use a lot of hyperbolic statements about a marginally better product than what we've seen from other devs.

I think it's premature to call KZ2 a "marginally better product" at this point. There might be some game(s) that best it in specific technical areas, but overall... this is an exceptional piece of work that is hard to beat.

Besides reinforcing the atmosphere in the original critically acclaimed trailer, GG has also demonstrated innovation in gameplay, parts of a destructible world, convincing character interaction, plus beautifully crafted artwork and animated sequences.

What's lacking is some technical information so that people like us can appreciate their work better. I remember GG presented early technology demoes to the journalists a while back. It would be interesting to see what technology showcase was demonstrated, and how far they have gone since then. Anyone attended the KZ tech demo ?

EDIT: Ok, besides 2xMSAA, I found some buzzwords associated with KZ 2 from their press release: http://www.ps3blog.net/2007/07/11/killzone-2-press-release/ . What do I gain from them ?

The game features highly atmospheric environments that respond accurately to weapon fire as players storm through the world of Helghan. The harsh climate and conditions of Helghan are also a factor, forcing players to adapt new tactics to survive. Proprietary tools and technology such as deferred rendering techniques are implemented to create advanced effects, such as ultra-vivid and detailed character animations and environments. Advanced cinematic effects are used to provide unprecedented visuals, including motion blur, internal lens reflections, and depth-based color grading that will let players experience gameplay that is sharp, detailed, and vibrant. Additionally, Killzone 2 supports 7.1 surround with location-specific audio, providing players the opportunity to experience sound and music that are not only dynamic but in context to indoor and outdoor locations.

 

[Lycan]

The animation is insane, and, more than ever, that and hysics will be the differentiating factors for games to come. Looking good in still no matter matters IMO. By the way, how did they manage to get soldiers look that way (they seem to fill the sapce/ have really a mass compared to, for exemple, UE3 protagonists. Is it because of higher geometry ?). The use of motion blur, DOF and tons of PP effects is really a sight. I hope AI follows.

 

[dantruon]

The animation is insane, and, more than ever, that and hysics will be the differentiating factors for games to come. Looking good in still no matter matters IMO. By the way, how did they manage to get soldiers look that way (they seem to fill the sapce/ have really a mass compared to, for exemple, UE3 protagonists. Is it because of higher geometry ?). The use of motion blur, DOF and tons of PP effects is really a sight. I hope AI follows.

yeah i agreed about the animations - it is very impressive.

on another note one of the developer suggested that one soldier model for Killzone 2 is equivalent to one single level of killzone 1 in term of poly counts. Now the question is how many poly were there in killzone 1 ?

 

[nAo]

Is KZ2 a technical milestone? I don't know, but I do know it looks VERY good, it has a consistent look, a lot of geometry on screen (the intro is really impressive from this standpoint!) and it does not try to overdo any effect (for example motion blur is subtle and effective, it's not just used to say "hey guys, we can do it!")
Their lens effects are cool (and..HS has something very similiar, maybe even more subtle..) and all the other post processing/color transform contribute to give to the game its own signature film grain/color scheme, and they also have tons and tons of fillrate intensive stuff on screen with no apparent slowdowns (edram is overrated anyway this generation )
MSAA and deferred rendering at the same time is quite a new thing, not groundbreaking cause the theory behind it is pretty simple, nonetheless I don't know any game (so far) that does anything like that, and I wonder if they even shade different lighting terms as diffuse, specular, occlusion, etc..at different rates.
Physics is also well done, it's true that ragdolls are nothing new..then why the vast majority of games out there get them all wrong?
KZ2 does a lot of things, tech wise, and it seems it does them very well.
The overal result is very solid, immersive and impressive, that's why ppl (me included) like it a lot.

 

[rekator]

Killzone2 was never intended to be compared to Halo or even become the Halo Killer.

The developers have said it a ton of times. Even motherh in us.playstation.com.

This is something that started from the media, magazines such as PSM and people, especially fanboys who have taken it and spread it everywhere making everyone think it was intended to replace Halo.

Yes, and it's the devs who make all this Buzz on Forum?
No… it's fanboy who want their Halo-Killer and in other hand the fact what their console they buy it's the best…
They don't care if the game was interresting to play, the only fact it's the Best Game never see…
And if you look the tech choice for KZ2 30Fps, lot of motion blur (not only for speed sensation), video with compression who stealth the quality of the screen, simpliest copy of the infamous trailer…
You have the Perfect video game presentation for Fanboy…
Very goog PR Sony and Guerilla, the competitors have to take lesson…
Now, KZ2 arrive in Mars 2008, hum seven months… a lot of work on the optimisation departement can be make…personnally I wait the finale release…

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Decent quality indoor gameplay scenes ( the same as the youtube one posted before ):

http://www.jeuxvideo.tv/killzone-2-video-40131.html

 

[almighty]

The game has bad textures but do bad textures meen the game looks bad? Hell no, think back to Half Life 2 and Doom 3, one game had alot of normal and bump mapping and shaders and the other game had worse textures and bump mapping but we all know Half Life 2 looked alot better. Gran Turismo 4 vs Forza, theres no denying that Forza had the better textures and effects but GT looked more "real" because of the lighting system. People are just complaing that KZ2 does'nt follow Gears and use super duper over the top bump/normal mapped textures, IMHO thats a good thing as i cant stand over used bump mapping. While its good at first because they look really nice there far from being realistic and thats the word here "realistic" medicore textures with a nice ultra realistic lighting model makes for an overall more realistic looking game and i think GG are going for the realictic look and not the overdone gears look.

Now sure in some area's COD4 might look better then KZ and visa versa but it as an overall package and to my eyes KZ2 looks more appealing then COD4.