Murakami
Regular
Maybe it's impossible.
PS3 Firmware 3.50
- Thread starter Arwin
- Start date
Okay, I see we are talking about different things. 
Yeah... it's possible for the audio limitations (since there is no hiccup in the audio department). I was more thinking about the BD-J issue. It's a recent thing because existing 3D Blu-ray movies didn't handle it well enough, suggesting a late development.
Yeah... it's possible for the audio limitations (since there is no hiccup in the audio department). I was more thinking about the BD-J issue. It's a recent thing because existing 3D Blu-ray movies didn't handle it well enough, suggesting a late development.
PS3 is partially compatible with hdmi1.4 which makes it good enough for 3d blu-rays and gaming. Apparently not perfect though. Might be the audio is due to bandwidth in hdmi chip in ps3. Or perhaps read speed of the disc. Might also just be software issue.
More stuff...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.0_to_1.2
Reading this, even if the HDMI Chip is a "turbo" changed version of 1.2 there should still be enough bandwidth for 3D and PCM channels.
The speed of the drive doesn´t seem to be an issue, if the first rapports are true, then the average bitrate has just been raised by 50%. That does result in less space or heavier compression. But at least there was some headroom in the Blu-Ray specs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.0_to_1.2
Reading this, even if the HDMI Chip is a "turbo" changed version of 1.2 there should still be enough bandwidth for 3D and PCM channels.
The speed of the drive doesn´t seem to be an issue, if the first rapports are true, then the average bitrate has just been raised by 50%. That does result in less space or heavier compression. But at least there was some headroom in the Blu-Ray specs.
specwarGP2
Regular
I personally believe it's a software issue. PS3 didnt get support for advanced audio codecs for a while at first.
April 15, 2008 Blu-ray Disc playback now supports DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio output.
July 2, 2008 For DTS playback on DVD-Video and Blu-ray Disc media, DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 for DVD-Video and DTS-ES Matrix for Blu-ray Discs are now supported.
The PlayStation 3 was first released on November 11, 2006 in Japan. Does that qualify for a while?
I might be willing to bet missing hd audio is due to bd drive read speed and problems in optimizing reading algorithm to work with measly 2x bd drive ps3 has.
The PlayStation 3 was first released on November 11, 2006 in Japan. Does that qualify for a while?
I might be willing to bet missing hd audio is due to bd drive read speed and problems in optimizing reading algorithm to work with measly 2x bd drive ps3 has.
Yep is sure qualifies, just wanted to find the specifics. Another idea could be simple performance. 3D is two full res streams at 1920x1080 instead of just one.
Uncompressed audio shouldn't take much performance to move from the disc to the speakers. Decompressing A/V should push the machine harder than raw A/V.
I think around 1.5x bd drive is needed for regular 2d blu-ray playback. PS3 has 2x bd drive and 3d discs most likely have higher bitrates than regular films. This rather easily imply it would be quite tricky to read 3d blu-rays without jitters if the content isn't optimized perfectly to the disc.
1x bd is 36MBit/s and the original blu-ray spec calls for something around 54MBit/s max. For 3d I assume the required bitrate is higher(to be exact 50% higher for video part unless quality is compromised or material happens to be really easy to compress).
I don't think performance issues are due to processing power. It might be immature software or read speed or combination of those both. Also it could be something really funky in the hdmi(even though ps3 should have the bandwidth there but maybe something else is lacking in hdmi hw)
Switching reading between video and audio tracks should cause some inefficiency so max bandwidth is never reach. And if there is no switch then which audio track is stored "within" the physical video stream?
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Blu-Ray maximum video bitrate is 40mbit/sec, with the data transfer rates 1x is 36mbit/sec and 1.5x being 54mbit/sec. [ http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison ]
If 3D requires 50% more bitrate, then to maintain maximum video quality the maximum bitrate would be at 60mbit/sec. I don't think the audio bitrate would need to change at all. I'm assuming a 2x BD Drive (72mbit/sec) would be the bare minimum spec for 3D Blu-Ray movies.
Here's an extensive post listing various BluRay releases with total bitrate and video bitrates to get a feel for real-world numbers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760714
If 3D requires 50% more bitrate, then to maintain maximum video quality the maximum bitrate would be at 60mbit/sec. I don't think the audio bitrate would need to change at all. I'm assuming a 2x BD Drive (72mbit/sec) would be the bare minimum spec for 3D Blu-Ray movies.
Here's an extensive post listing various BluRay releases with total bitrate and video bitrates to get a feel for real-world numbers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760714
It's difficult to say. 3D Blu-ray is not merely 2 parallel 1080p streams. They need to be presented together in synchronized fashion. The extra sync may introduce additional memory demand (space and bandwidth) to keep last frames, and extra blocking calls in the worst case scenario.
Then again, they have already given up parallel BD-J execution. So may be they can fit HD Audio in later if it's a software issue. If it's a output chip issue, they can do it differently for newer PS3s. If it's a spec issue, I thought the specs say there is ample bandwidth in HDMI 1.3 ?
EDIT: Just saw BRiT's post, I don't think think Blu-ray read speed is the bottleneck. We haven't seen reports on 3D Blu-ray requiring more than 2x read speed so far.
Then again, they have already given up parallel BD-J execution. So may be they can fit HD Audio in later if it's a software issue. If it's a output chip issue, they can do it differently for newer PS3s. If it's a spec issue, I thought the specs say there is ample bandwidth in HDMI 1.3 ?
EDIT: Just saw BRiT's post, I don't think think Blu-ray read speed is the bottleneck. We haven't seen reports on 3D Blu-ray requiring more than 2x read speed so far.
I think they had to redo the player to begin with. The player was created to cope with one stream of 1080 and that is upped to 2 streams of 1080 with 3D, not necessarily easy . That would also explain why they had to scrape some stuff, at least for starters while they concentrated on getting the basics done.
The stuff you mention took them 2 years to get "fixed". And just as a game has a polygon budget, Sony only has so much their software development can cope with.
The 50% just means that in order to get a picture quality equal to a non 3D version they have to use 50% more bits. Doesn´t mean they have to
With 40 Mbit/s for video the important impact will be "headroom" for very active scenes (this is like returning to HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray).
This list:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-movies-north-america/3338-blu-ray-movie-bitrates-here.html
Has the average bitrates, you could in principle add 50% to those and that would be the needed bitrate for 3D versions. If you get above 40Mbit, quality should in principle suffer.
But we need to see real data to be sure. I would guess that depending on the movie and the amount of 3D(?) the data could vary.
You have to add audio also there and IF one has to move the head reading disc all hell is happening...
For ps3 firmware it's probably better to handle worst case than be happy and fail in middle of the movie...
True though the PIP tracks now are hardly HD though, in the old days there just were 2 difference encodes of the same movie, one with a PIP and one with out. Space to waste!
I wonder if anyone actually made a disc with a Full HD pip track
Oh yeah, did I mention it looks like 3.5 might have a jailbreak? Still waiting on solid verification, the video looks sketchy as hell, but it's from a fairly reliable group. It'll be funny if Sony gets the fixed firmware out before the hack goes public.
I want to say they managed to do that a few times with the PSP, but I don't remember for sure.edit: It's probably fixing the downgrade exploits
The sad thing was that I thought we were probably due for a major firmware update for about a week now.
