Adrian Orbis
Newcomer
I don't think the XSX will cost more than the standard PS5.
Xbox Series S [XBSS] (Lockhart) General Rumors and Speculation *spawn*
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
No, the same wafers. That's drastically different than the same dies. With smaller dies, you can get more SOCs per wafer. MS will be contracting with TSMC for wafer starts, it doesn't matter too much what they use the wafers for, but that's the bulk per/unit cost of anything they'll have made. The more wafer starts they contract for, the lower the cost per wafer.
Regards,
SB
An expensive X and underpowered S allow them to be out of position on both.
If you believe the X is expensive & S is underpowered.
Tommy McClain
Unsure if just followed my post or was in response.
I don't think that xss needs to be under 250 for statement to be true.
Ok, got ya, i know some people still think it's all the same die.
Yea the xss dies are smaller and can get more out of the wafer, which will make it cheaper than the xsx soc's, I do question how much cheaper than xo/1x will be though.
Can you mix on a wafer?
Large rectangular die and circular wafer, you might be able to fit a few smaller dies round the circumference?
Probably not worth the effort. Complicating an already complicated process is a nono. The decrease in yields itself will probably make this strategy self defeating.
Assumed meant purchasing the wafers not the actual wafer usage.
So each wafer would still only be used for single purpose, but you are bulk buying more wafers themselves.
I've resigned myself to the idea that Series S is just a standard set-top box under the TV.
Tommy McClain
I think its the ssd that is the issue.
MS did a lot of work to make a swappable ssd that was easy to install but its still a bit to big for a portable system. So unless your going to have an xbox series s that you can only ever have x amount of space on your going to be in trouble.
On the flip side maybe in another process node or so you can build a nand package with the performance neded to keep up with what they have now.
I think Nintendo might run into a similar issue. Yes your not at the maximum speed of micro sd or the sd express standard by a long shot. But its hard to get better performance at a decent price point. Fast cheap storage thats portable isn't really cheap or highly avalible. Right now micro sd cards have been stuck around the 100MB/s barrier for quite a while
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I'm pretty sure MS is hoping xCloud gives them the portable gaming as it develops over time. They're in the hardware business more out of necessity right now than anything else.
I don't know about that. A lot of mobile plans out there are not unlimited and cap your data quickly. I think a game service streaming 1080p and soon 4k video will burn through a lot of data quickly and cause people to hit caps and either have to spend more or get throttled.
I think in terms of mobile there is at least another generation or two of physical hardware.
An Xbox series s could eventually make its way down to the mobile form factor, I think it will just be another 3 years or so before its really possible. Would most likely see it happen with a newer cpu and gpu also
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I'm not disagreeing that we have 1 or two physical hardware generations for portables still coming, but that doesn't preclude what I'm saying: That MS aren't likely getting involved other than with xCloud, mostly for people playing Bejeweled or on WIFI without data caps.
If they release any of their own portable hardware at this point it would probably be a Xcloud device.
7" display, physical controls, fast wifi chip, optimized for latency. That could be made/sold at any time and probably for less than half the price of a "shrunken Xbox hardware" portable device.
7" display, physical controls, fast wifi chip, optimized for latency. That could be made/sold at any time and probably for less than half the price of a "shrunken Xbox hardware" portable device.
If you believe the X is expensive & S is underpowered.
Tommy McClain
Well if nvidia sets the bar at 10-15 TF being entry to mid level then 4 TF is underpowered, especially if that is the most popular consumer choice due to cost. Bang goes your top end. Which if it costs more than 499 is overpriced. And again if the most popular consumer choice is the cheapest it also means the top end might as well not exist.
"Portable" doesn't necessary mean "phone" or "Switch" sized. I'm thinking more like a gaming Surface tablet or gaming laptop. That's an error that they have a bit of success in. Don't seem them something they size of the Switch but just a streaming device. That's what Android phones & 7" tablets are for.
I'm going to start ignoring posts that bring NVIDIA & PCs as comparison to consoles. You won't have that conversation with me.
Tommy McClain
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A laptop would be more than sufficient at this power level. They've put bigger GPUs into laptops. This being a low powered APU able to provide some productivity and low end gaming a good place for it to exist. Basically trying to take back territory from the ipad market.
I see no reason this product couldn't be successful provided it can keep up with pricing around the ipad market.
But your console purchaser isn't going to buy a laptop instead, and MS aren't going to ever target the iPad market. The closest they get is with Surface and they aren't going to overlap that market with a confused gaming rig.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I feel that this statement is so out of touch with reality it's almost unbelievable. 10-15 TF is nowhere near entry level. Most gaming consumers have PS4s and XOneS and 1080p TVs and are looking at getting a new console. They aren't even looking at PC hardware.
Now I'm starting to lose my patience with half the posters coming into the console forums and trashing consoles. XSS, PS5 and XSX are plenty powerful for the console market they are selling into. Can the PC Master Race stuff stay out of these console forums please?!?
There is a console already, it's called Xbox Series X. The question is whether they need a second console.
MS is a very innovative company as of late, willing to try things. You'd be surprised how much the company has changed.
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