Xbox Series S [XBSS] (Lockhart) General Rumors and Speculation *spawn*

[Unknown Soldier]

Completely different. A console has games written for it. A simpler version of a console means games won't target the better version 100%. So in your example, people would mind a cheaper model Mercedes if it meant the race-tracks were designed for that cheaper Merc and didn't push the expensive Merc to its limits. owners of the expensive Merc would be disappointed that all the race tracks were a little limited and they couldn't see what their car could really do.

Now there's a big debate as to just how much the flagship model will be held back, if to any noticeable degree, but the product comparisons you make are invalid because the console market is (currently) unique in how it works. You buy one console from one side (most people won't have multiple machines) and it'll last 7+ years and you want the best from it and devs to make the most of it. I can't off the top of my head think of any comparables, because of the closed ecosystems, the way software can be optimised for specific systems, and the long product lifespans. All other products are interchangeable and replaceable with alternatives.

If consoles move over to frequent iterations like a phone or PC/Mac, then it will become a product family where people won't mind there being tiers of product. Until that happens, the Lockhart 'hate', even if it doesn't amount to much, is at least understandable.

And that has been my stance on Lockhart and Scarlett for a while now. MS are shooting themselves in the foot imo. We all know that Scarlett is the top of the range with the 12TF and more powerful CPU however releasing a cheaper console like the Lockhart would just undercut sales of the Scarlett, even if it can do games at 1080p or 1440p. Also the Gamepass is undercutting the console as you don't need a console if you can play the same games on PC. That said gamepass is a great proposition however I do believe it will hurt the MS consoles.

imo. So up to a month ago we were in limbo with MS doing more damage to themselves than what Sony had done to that point.

Good:
Fastest GPU 12TF
Fastest CPU 3.6Ghz multi thread(3.8Ghz single thread)
DirectStorage
Gamepass - Nice to play games on any platform
SSD - Up to spec with current market PCI 3.0 specs (2.4MBps RAW)
15 first party developers - We can hope there might be at least 3-5 great quality story driven games. There might be new IP's?
Consoles 2 SKU's -Variety is always good. Cheap price for at least one SKU. Scarlett is a beast!

Bad:
SSD - While not a bad SSD, it still below current-gen PCI4.0 specs (5GBps)
Gamepass - You can play the games on PC and don't need to purchase a console to be honest, not until the console exclusives come out.
15 first party developers - No gameplay yet shown although that should change in July. Will there be any high quality story driven games? Hellblade at least. Halo? Forca? So the usual. Any others? Fable perhaps.
Also why no current exclusives? IP's anything new or all old?
Consoles 2 SKU's - Lockhart might cut into sales of Scarlett, especially at a really cheap price point and it delivers good graphics performance. Will the Lockhart graphics power be enough to play 1440p 60fps and stream the games via XCloud without lag and other issues that Google's Stadia showed up with. Will people who initally buy Lockhart, want to change over to Scarlett in two or three years time if they can still playing on 1080p or 1440p and games are still coming out with PC in mind. Costs of the consoles?

Anything else anyone else wants to add?

 

[Picao84]

So my prediction

5ish Tflop navi 2 design
same zen cpu and clocks as its big brother
12 gigs of ram I think around 270gb/s
500gig ssd same speed as its big brother.
No optical drive - expandable cart for ssd like its big brother.
Comes with 3 months of game pass ultimate .
$200-$250
2021

Free with a 3 year subscription to game pass ultimate

And yet some people were telling me a 199 price point for Lockhart was impossible a few months back...

 

[HBRU]

And that has been my stance on Lockhart and Scarlett for a while now. MS are shooting themselves in the foot imo. We all know that Scarlett is the top of the range with the 12TF and more powerful CPU however releasing a cheaper console like the Lockhart would just undercut sales of the Scarlett, even if it can do games at 1080p or 1440p. Also the Gamepass is undercutting the console as you don't need a console if you can play the same games on PC. That said gamepass is a great proposition however I do believe it will hurt the MS consoles.

imo. So up to a month ago we were in limbo with MS doing more damage to themselves than what Sony had done to that point.

Good:
Fastest GPU 12TF
Fastest CPU 3.6Ghz multi thread(3.8Ghz single thread)
DirectStorage
Gamepass - Nice to play games on any platform
SSD - Up to spec with current market PCI 3.0 specs (2.4MBps RAW)
15 first party developers - We can hope there might be at least 3-5 great quality story driven games. There might be new IP's?
Consoles 2 SKU's -Variety is always good. Cheap price for at least one SKU. Scarlett is a beast!

Bad:
SSD - While not a bad SSD, it still below current-gen PCI4.0 specs (5GBps)
Gamepass - You can play the games on PC and don't need to purchase a console to be honest, not until the console exclusives come out.
15 first party developers - No gameplay yet shown although that should change in July. Will there be any high quality story driven games? Hellblade at least. Halo? Forca? So the usual. Any others? Fable perhaps.
Also why no current exclusives? IP's anything new or all old?
Consoles 2 SKU's - Lockhart might cut into sales of Scarlett, especially at a really cheap price point and it delivers good graphics performance. Will the Lockhart graphics power be enough to play 1440p 60fps and stream the games via XCloud without lag and other issues that Google's Stadia showed up with. Will people who initally buy Lockhart, want to change over to Scarlett in two or three years time if they can still playing on 1080p or 1440p and games are still coming out with PC in mind. Costs of the consoles?

Anything else anyone else wants to add?

There is the Coronavirus crisis. Not so many persons want to spend a lot of money for a console maybe for just let the kid play Minecraft. Entusiast get the best chips... if unsold the chip are going into servers. I think MS strategy is OK. Sony's one lacks a 200 dollars entry product so forced to keep very low the Digital versione (IMHO)....

 

[cheapchips]

I generally enthusiastic about a 200-250 currency Lockhart. It'll be a nice swap in for the kid's S. For the games we play together and the gampass stuff I dip into it'll be fine. The fast loading /resume /switching is enough to make me want one. I only have a 55" TV at 3m. A good 1080p + image will do fine.

I was twitchy about raytracing and maybe am a bit still. Nothing in the PS5 showcase or on PC made me think it'll be an issue, but it's all early days.

Edit: and early days on nanite/lumen performance. Upscaled 720-900p?

 

[Deleted member 7537]

If 200/400 is true, then I expect MS to lose a substantial amount of money with each unit sold. I think 300/500 will be closer to reality.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It'd have to be heavily subsidised. We haven't had a $200 console in a long time, and when we have, it's been after lots of process advancements. It's unrealistic to think a new console on the latest tech is going to be as cheap as the current 7 year old consoles.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yeah, MS is not in the business to lose money. Sure they can take a small hit as can Sony, but in the end taking a $100 or $150 hit per console will not sit well, especially if the console doesn't sell well for whatever reason.

 

[steveOrino]

I don't see the value in lockhart, especially for anyone already invested in another ecosystem. Commodity hardware, rolling generations and mid-gen refresh has really changed the landscape. Current generation was critical imo because moving over an entire software and social investment from the start is so plug and play now. Also, I don't see a massive delta between two hardware skus as a good thing for consumers since launch XBone vs X was massive, to where the base system was really compromised to keep a baseline of performance up towards the last half of the generation. Anyways, lots of questions to be answered in the near future.

 

[iroboto]

Well at this point I'm just shutting up. I do like the gaf people who keep saying I'm very xbox related so I'm upset about sony. How many times now have i said I wont buy either console and instead get a really fast navi2 or GeForce 3x series card and I think that's what everyone else should do also.

But hey look, I said what I could based on what I've heard. I am not a primary source for any of it.

I think I am going to exit Microsoft threads for a bit as I didn't think this would blow up like it did and I rather at this point hope my info is wrong so the wolves don't come after me

On this forum, we don't do that type of stuff. No one here is asking you to prove anything, because that's not the type of site we are. We're supposed to be taking your claims and critically thinking about it, to see if its makes sense, if it works out etc. It's their own fault for not thinking through things carefully, and it would appear their own lack of ability to determine the viability of claims is in question.

So don't change anything wrt this topic. We shouldn't care about those people anyway. It does suck that people are rifling through your history; but really it's on WCCFtech to have done thorough reporting before writing that article. And that's not on you. Whether people believe it or not, once again that is not on you. If your primary source of information as a journalist is to pull posts from a message board, once again that is not on you.

Having said that, for a short period of time your claims have caused a huge traffic spike on some particular forums, which is funny. Apparently we can skip the July showcasing of games, all MS just needs a 399 XSX and 199 Lockhart to melt forums.

 

[fehu]

There's a simple rule to predict the future: check the most backed educate guess on b3d, bet on the opposite.
I'm really skeptic about a 200$ console, but due to the rule it's really possible.

 

[mpg1]

There's a simple rule to predict the future: check the most backed educate guess on b3d, bet on the opposite.
I'm really skeptic about a 200$ console, but due to the rule it's really possible.

For $200 to be possible imo it'd have to be 500GB SSD...

 

[N2O]

https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1592397728.A.C90.html
Translation:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1273616995078950912

https://imgur.com/ypwaZPV

Could be explaining why MS could potentially match or even undercut Sony.

 

[AzBat]

If the rumors of multiple devices using the XSX are true, then I believe that MS may not have to subsidize or sell their consoles at a loss. More chips means more buying power. Something they didn't have in previous launches. I believe MS planned from the beginning for a $400 price point. With the PS5 details now I think that it was probably the best decision. The PS5 SSD & boost narratives have drowned out whatever technical edge MS has with 12TF & fixed clocks. With it being too late to make any adjustments on the high end I think a console at $400 or less is definitely warranted. Whether that's a $400 XSX and no Lockhart or a $300 Lockhart with a $500 XSX, I think either decision is the best way to compete with the PS5.

Tommy McClain

 

[AlNom]

Whether that's a $400 XSX and no Lockhart or a $300 Lockhart with a $500 XSX, I think either decision is the best way to compete with the PS5.

Tommy McClain

It's certainly a way to differentiate themselves in a multiplatform-dominated industry and where Sony is known for big exclusives. Simply having a device lacking "Sony-exclusives" at the same price/performance is probably a more sure-fired shot in the foot than this sort of gamble/change-up to appeal to a broader market early-on.

 

[mpg1]

If the rumors of multiple devices using the XSX are true, then I believe that MS may not have to subsidize or sell their consoles at a loss. More chips means more buying power. Something they didn't have in previous launches. I believe MS planned from the beginning for a $400 price point. With the PS5 details now I think that it was probably the best decision. The PS5 SSD & boost narratives have drowned out whatever technical edge MS has with 12TF & fixed clocks. With it being too late to make any adjustments on the high end I think a console at $400 or less is definitely warranted. Whether that's a $400 XSX and no Lockhart or a $300 Lockhart with a $500 XSX, I think either decision is the best way to compete with the PS5.

Tommy McClain

I think that depends on how many chips they end up using in XCloud. If it becomes popular then yeah it could drive down costs..

 

[Jay]

And yet some people were telling me a 199 price point for Lockhart was impossible a few months back...

Of cause it isn't, black Friday in about 3 years. Bet you could pick it up for that.

I think that depends on how many chips they end up using in XCloud. If it becomes popular then yeah it could drive down costs..

The thing with xcloud (Scarlett Ed) is that gaming is just it's primary use case, so even if xcloud doesn't do well as long as it's performing as expected in the others it should be fine.

 

[HBRU]

It'd have to be heavily subsidised. We haven't had a $200 console in a long time, and when we have, it's been after lots of process advancements. It's unrealistic to think a new console on the latest tech is going to be as cheap as the current 7 year old consoles.

Subscriptions importance in the past was really different from now.

 

[mpg1]

The thing with xcloud (Scarlett Ed) is that gaming is just it's primary use case, so even if xcloud doesn't do well as long as it's performing as expected in the others it should be fine.

huh? Microsoft already has data centers for other use cases.

 

[shiznit]

I don't see an issue with a 5TF LH as long as the CPU is the same or very close. Dynamic resolution scaling should take care of the GPU and memory bandwidth differences. There may be corner cases where you don't have enough fixed function hardware in the smaller GPU for certain effects, those can be toggled off (SSR vs RT reflections for example). MFSF may even get away with a slower SSD interface with SFS, you'll just wait a little longer for the highest quality mip. One thing I'm not sure about is how much memory capacity can be cut without severely impacting game development.

 

[Jay]

huh? Microsoft already has data centers for other use cases.

Phil already talked about input from the azure team, and it being used for offer workloads when it's not busy