Unofficially RSX = G80

[babcat]

No, he has not at all lost his mind. He is speculating about the possible information revealed in this thread. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is what we should be doing.

 

[Brimstone]

IMHO, the biggest piece of evidence is the "unexpected" contract nVidia got from Sony. This contract is going to bring in slightly more revenue than the first nv47 contract. Thats over $30 million Sony is forking out for engineering work. This isn't some simple project contract for a notebook computer.

Graphics chip maker Nvidia Corp. said on Thursday it has a new design contract with Sony Corp. that will pay more than it earned for creating the graphics processor for the upcoming PlayStation 3 video game console.

Sony paid Nvidia about $30 million for designing the PS3’s graphics chip, a fee that was paid out gradually as work on the processor was completed, Nvidia’s chief financial officer Marv Burkett said.
“We had anticipated that (contract revenue) would drop off, but that’s not going to happen,” Burkett told financial analysts. “We have new contracts with Sony to do some further designs.”
Revenue from the new contract would be “probably slightly more” than the first and would continue into 2007, Burkett said.

Burkett declined to reveal what the design work was for.
“We have a contract to do engineering work for them. I don’t think I should discuss what that product is,” Burkett said.

http://www.ps3newsresource.com/123/nvidia-says-lands-new-sony-design-contract/

If I recall correctly in the first half of 2007 nVidia expects this second contract revenue to finish.


First part of the new contract was convert technology from G80 into the PS3 platform at .90nm with work continuing to get the GPU ready to be fabbed on .65nm in 2007.

 

[Carl B]

That is not what I read that announcement as at all!

PSP2 I think is what most of us concluded back during the actual announcement...

But whatever the case we already *know* that RSX has 24 pixel pipes. And yet you throw up a theory that adds 50% to both it's pixel and it's vertex pipes, bases it on G80, and does god-knows-what to it's thermal footprint...?

Dude, I'm getting that intervention together...

And by the way, you're 'half a G80' theory just got posted back at PSINext - I'm holding you personally responsible for this suffering you're causing me Brimstone!

(everyone be at Brimstone's house at 11am tomorrow...)

 

[hey69]

couldnt be g70 with g80 extensions like the original xbox1 gpu was? an exotic geforce3with geforce4 extras inside?

 

[Tim Murray]

A cut-down G80 does NOT equal a G71. Those are two different GPUs. If you included the G80 pipelines I KNOW I am talking about the Unified Shader architecture being in there. What I mean by my comment is lets say Sony cannot afford a 700 million transistor GPU in the PS3, but they wanted something more than a slightly modified G71. NVIDIA along with Sony would look at the G80 and find a way to reduce the number of pipelines (however they are set-up) or reconfigure the chip to have fewer transistors, have less performance, but still be better in performance than the G71 RSX.

Well, if you're talking about G80's supposed unified shader architecture, you'd be wrong. Unified instruction sets != one big pool of ALUs that can process both vertex and pixel shaders.

Also, "one core from the G80." Yes, it is officially the worst thread ever.

 

[sunscar]

Like I said, I think there will be some design concepts that are present - That's a given, but the G80 is not a few design concepts, it is a complete package. If the "leaked' info is legit, G80 "is" unified shader tech, a huge data-bus, GDDR4, and an unconfirmed number of shading units which even in its lowest incarnation will likely be more than the RSX has.

This is wishful thinking, plain and simple. The RSX is not a G80, though G80 may be an advanced part which shares pedigree with the RSX... The RSX isn't a G71, though it seems to be derrived from it... The RSX is the RSX, in the same way the NV2a is not a Geforce 3 or a Geforce 4, it is an NV2a. It's a cocktail of super-new and semi-old.


Dio

 

[DuckThor Evil]

IMHO, the biggest piece of evidence is the "unexpected" contract nVidia got from Sony.

IMO your biggest evidence COULDN'T be any more clear that it's talking about something else than the graphics chip developed for PS3

"Nvidia Corp. said t has a new design contract"

"will pay more than it earned for creating the graphics processor for the upcoming PlayStation 3 video game console"

"Sony paid Nvidia about $30 million for designing the PS3’s graphics chip, a fee that was paid out gradually as work on the processor was completed"

"We have new contracts with Sony to do some further designs"

 

[Rangers]

This has already been debunked thouroughly but..

Here's another..more for Brimstone since he seems serious..Lost Planet on the 360 has been said to look as good as DMC4 by some. It comes out of the same studio Capcom, on even the same engine I think.

So..how does that make G80, or any part thereoff, likely?

That Nvidia contract thing is really odd though..strange that nothing has leaked on it. Maybe it is for future RSX respins/cost reduction etc?

From what I've heard PSP2 would just involve not changing the base hardware, but things like adding 8GB of flash memory. Considering PSP2 already is getting killed by DS, and is probably losing money on the very aggressive technically for a handheld hardware, I dont see what Nvidia is needed for PSP2.

 

[bRoNx]

Although I agree that seems impossible, wouldn't it make sense for SONY to go with the strongest GPU for the PS3? I mean, the X360 has been out for a year already, and if M$ sticks to their 4-year console cycle, that'll put the X720 (or whatever) around 2009.

For some reason, I don't SONY's gonna drop the PS3 and switch to PS4 that soon. So, you get the best GPU now, that can hopefully keep things comparable by 2009 (I know, highly unlikely, but...) so that there's enough firepower in the PS3 to stay competitive and keep consumers interested -- and away from the X720.

Or they can just launch the PS4...

 

[Carl B]

couldnt be g70 with g80 extensions like the original xbox1 gpu was? an exotic geforce3with geforce4 extras inside?

This I would be willing to buy into, but it would have to be extremely limited considering how much of the G80s architecture would be built around meeting the DX10 requirement, and thus being achieved on a significantly different architectural base relative to NV47s.

So a couple of instructions, etc etc... we've already been told as much really. Now whether those added instructions or not share heritage with G80s own or not...

 

[StefanS]

That Nvidia contract thing is really odd though..strange that nothing has leaked on it. Maybe it is for future RSX respins/cost reduction etc?

From what I've heard PSP2 would just involve not changing the base hardware, but things like adding 8GB of flash memory. Considering PSP2 already is getting killed by DS, and is probably losing money on the very aggressive technically for a handheld hardware, I dont see what Nvidia is needed for PSP2.

That's not PSP2, that's PSPLite (the one with the rumoured 8GB flash memory). PSP2 would be a completly new HW launched probably somewhere in 2009.

 

[Carl B]

From what I've heard PSP2 would just involve not changing the base hardware, but things like adding 8GB of flash memory. Considering PSP2 already is getting killed by DS, and is probably losing money on the very aggressive technically for a handheld hardware, I dont see what Nvidia is needed for PSP2.

Yeah, well from your join date I know you will have missed out on all those fun conversations from back in the day but...

...basically at the time of discussion the idea was, PSP2's coming at some point, and when it happens it may behoove Sony to move it's graphics API to more closely match that of PS3s to ease cross-platform development burdens. This should fit in nicely also with COLLADAs goal of easing transfer of art assets across platforms as well, and perhaps make for easier development of IPs with both a home and mobile gaming derivative-SKU strategy.

EDIT: As hupfinsgack points out, you may just be confused as to what actually constitutes PSP2. (and thus warrants NVidia's chip involvement)

 

[mrboo]

Not another RSX-G80 thread.....

Physically it could be done, G80 is rumoured to be nothing but a G7X with DX10 features add'd, but cost wise it could'nt.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Okay, I don't go with this rumour at all. But, just for the sake of discussion, what exactly is G80? Is it US? If so, that's that idea totally trashed. If it's fixed SM4.0 shaders, how viable is it to take an NV47 and replace the SM3.0 shaders with SM4.0 shaders?

 

[sunscar]

Edit - Above ya Shifty...

I don't know about that. Moving from fixed function shader units to unified shading architecture is not as simple as "adding DX10 features".

It would make sense for SONY to go for the most bang for their buck, not for the most powerful GPU. Besides, at some point, you have to engrave your specs in stone, otherwise, developers be damned, and we have a launch date of November 11th for Japan and the 17th for the US, as it stands, there is no going back. It may sound trivial, moving from a less powerful GPU to a more powerful GPU, but in this case, it's not so simple. You're switching paradigms, and also in this case you're taking a brand-new design and expecting to design, engineer, and implement PS3-specific parts in less than two months. I'm sorry, but that's not a two month job, or even a six month job, that's a year-plus job.

Sidenote - Yeah, it is pretty likely that this will be an in-betweener like the NV2a, meaning it's likely it'll contain good ideas from both the G70 line and the G80 line.

Shifty - I'd presume if it were fixed SM4.0 it'd be possible to add SM4.0-level shader tech to an NV47-esque core without too much modification of the hardware, but I believe we are talking about G80 being US. Honestly, I don't think it's really an issue. What SONY's already got is an SM3.0+-level GPU an API that allows them to get essentially down to the assembly level, basically bypassing that entirely, and a CPU that's fast enough and flexible enough to do in software, much of what DX10 will require anyway.

 

[mrboo]

I did'nt think G80 is going to use USA

 

[Rangers]

Yeah, well from your join date I know you will have missed out on all those fun conversations from back in the day but...

...basically at the time of discussion the idea was, PSP2's coming at some point, and when it happens it may behoove Sony to move it's graphics API to more closely match that of PS3s to ease cross-platform development burdens. This should fit in nicely also with COLLADAs goal of easing transfer of art assets across platforms as well, and perhaps make for easier development of IPs with both a home and mobile gaming derivative-SKU strategy.

EDIT: As hupfinsgack points out, you may just be confused as to what actually constitutes PSP2. (and thus warrants NVidia's chip involvement)

OT: Fine but it doesn't make a lot of sense to make a MORE powerful part, when the one they've got is already incredibly aggressive technologically to the point they're probably still eating money on the hardware in order to have a reasonable (and arguably not reasonable enough!) price. Not too mention, I think their only chance with PSP is time, lots of time for price drops and people to (hopefully for Sony) begin to appreciate the extra power over DS, not cutting it off with a new part.

The only way it makes sense to me is if they plan to do something like this: Cheap, less powerful or same than PSP (but still more powerful than DS) and cartridge based (to eliminate load times, listed as one reason for DS success). Nvidia might be able to help with a more cost effective chip than other suppliers for that hypothetical plan, yes.

But I guess what Im saying is there's no point at all in Sony making something more powerful than PSP anytime soon, because PSP is already far more powerful than any other handheld and they cant get it down in cost, nor is it a market success.

 

[avaya]

Why do people like to piss in the wind?

PS3 manufacturing starts soon, actually it should have begun by now. Final hardware had to go through the usual statutory checks and get certification some time ago. RSX = NV47. End of.

If the OP has any ounce of truth to it then the theory offered by "one" is most likely to be the case. People shouldn't take information from people not directly involved with hardware/software side to seriously.

 

[MrWibble]

The truth is that there is not a final devkit out yet. From what I recently read it was stated that the current unit is DevKit version .93 and 1.0 has yet to be released.

You should not confuse SDK versions with devkit revisions. I've seen it done a lot, but the two are mostly entirely seperate things. The SDK is just a bunch of downloadable software, the devkit is a lump of hardware. The software is updated constantly, the devkit only very occasionally.

Final devkits have been around for a while. The SDK however will probably never really be "final" and whether or not it's reached "1.0" yet doesn't really mean much either.

 

[LunchBox]

maybe the "further revisions" Nvidia is saying about their future contract(s) is/are die shrinks and maybe unifying cell and the rsx down the line to make it cost effective...

like what sony did to PS1 and PS2...

It doesn't matter to me what RSX is going to be anymore...

After drooling and (maybe ) having multiple orgasms at the previewed games at TGS...

I don't have any worries at all...