Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[patsu]

Sony said they will release a pad to compete for the #2 position. PSP2 (dedicated gaming platform) and the pad (portable/casual/simple computing platform) are 2 different creatures.

Either way, the Playstation brand will be there to support different user groups.

 

[patsu]

On PSP backward compatibility:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/01/29/hirai_ngp_details/

As announced at PlayStation meeting, the NGP is compatible with PSP software. PSP titles will run completely through emulation, said Hirai.

Of course, you'll only be able to use downloadable versions of PSP games. Sony is currently in negotiations to get software makers to actively release download versions of their games.

Those who already have downloadable PSP titles on their PSP system will be able to redownload them to NGP, assuming you're still within the download number limits imposed by PSN.

 

[Squilliam]

I didn't see that. that ruins much of the potential value as a unique portable media player. The software business is great, but that has it's own thread and NGP is just a device for that; it doesn't define NGP. NGP itself isn't particularly exciting for me. It's just a fancy handheld that doesn't do anything different, maybe just of a better quality, which means in this day and age it'll likely age fast.

Couldn't it output video to a TV through wireless? If it supports wireless N even in the worser case scenarios it hardly has to transmit anything more than 720P @ 30FPS and in the better cases it has to deal with less than half of that. Even with poor reception that ought to be doable although the issue is the lack of present support for a feature like that.

I guess overall you could call it almost a tablet / media / game device given the large emphasis on non game features like GPS, 3G and camera. I suspect that if they wanted to given the size of the device they could even diverge the feature set even further into different model ranges if they find theres a segment which demands a great camera/gps/internet experience whilst not being so fond of the games.

 

[eastmen]

Completely different considerations on a mobile platform vs. home console.

It shows that the added cost for it is viable and mabye even perfered.

Cost continues to go down and compression goes up . I can still see a xbox 3 or ps4 using a form of flash for games. I still think 16 gigs will be enough for most next gen games esp at the start of the generation i'd see 8 gigs (1.3gigs more than the biggest single disc xbox 360 games ) to 16 gigs being used at the start and as prices come down 32 ,64 will become more viable. Eating $2-3 even up to $5 for it can be countered with a $5 price increase.


Flash is the smarter way to go esp if you want a quiet small system with fast loading time. MS doesn't need bluray and they can certianly use the space a 5 1/2 inch drive takes up for other things like better cooling or reduced foot print or even putting a 3 1/2 inch hardrive instead of a 2.5 inch

 

[SedentaryJourney]

I'm not saying Sony should abandon the 'hardcore' and chase the 'casual'. I'm saying the hardcore isn't a strong enough market to support an expensive new HW platform and the casual market is saturated and broken thanks to massive devaluing of software.

For NGP to sell it has to stand out on other grounds. It had the chance to have 3D and differentiate from iOS+smartphones, but they didn't go that route meaning Nintendo own that interest exclusively for the time being. They could have gone with a screen output and treat NGP as an ultra portable home console and media player with its own mini screen, but didn't go that route. So it's not appealing on those grounds either. All it's offering for non-hardcore gamers AFAICS is a better screen and a rear touchpad, the latter of which might work well but doesn't immediately strike me as a must-have feature. We're left with a handheld that'll sell 5 million units to those who want PS3 type games on the go. The rest of PSP's audience will surely migrate to other platforms that are either more cost effective (you have to have a mobile anyway), generally more popular, or other something excitingly new like 3D.

What I think analysts aren't getting right is that the hardcore game market is one that's too compelling and profitable to be underserved by a mass market device. They're a fuller experience, demand a better price, and make more money for platform holders. Also portable consoles don't require some gimmick or radically different ecosystem to distinguish them from home consoles. What clinched it for me was when Ocarina of Time was announced for the 3DS. Initially I was mildly interested in Nintendo's latest portable, but when I read that OOT would be on the platform I knew I'd be getting one. Nintendo had a portable console technically capable of one of the best home console experiences ever. Portability is the gimmick. It's why people bought the original Gameboy all those years ago.

If the PSPs audience does migrate away from the platform, the only alternative that makes sense to me is the 3DS. Although I think what drew people to the PSP in the first place, basically the quality and fidelity to the home console experience, will keep them coming back for the PSP2; even more so since the controls are better now. Also, if I'm right and portability is the draw, there's no reason to peg the size of this market as anything significantly smaller than the console audience at large.

 

[patsu]

http://kotaku.com/5746092/epic-games-sonys-next-gen-portable-is-a-pretty-huge-deal

Rein calls the NGP a "pretty huge deal" for not just Playstation fans, but gamers.

... IMHO, for core gamers (because of the 2 thumb sticks and many other intuitive controls for all kinds of situations). Otherwise, Playstation Suite is a bigger deal for me. I don't care so much for graphics although I can tell most of the visual differences when I look carefully, and ask around.

 

[corduroygt]

Cost continues to go down and compression goes up . I can still see a xbox 3 or ps4 using a form of flash for games. I still think 16 gigs will be enough for most next gen games esp at the start of the generation i'd see 8 gigs (1.3gigs more than the biggest single disc xbox 360 games ) to 16 gigs being used at the start and as prices come down 32 ,64 will become more viable. Eating $2-3 even up to $5 for it can be countered with a $5 price increase.

It's not wise to offer 16GB games for at least $10 more than your competitiors 50GB games,since 16GB flash costs closer to $25 than $5, and the it'll cost at least $10 in 2013 at best.

Flash is the smarter way to go esp if you want a quiet small system with fast loading time. MS doesn't need bluray and they can certianly use the space a 5 1/2 inch drive takes up for other things like better cooling or reduced foot print or even putting a 3 1/2 inch hardrive instead of a 2.5 inch

People still play DVD and Blu-ray discs on their consoles. Blu-ray drives can be quiet and they don't heat up much. Not everyone uses crappy optical drives in their consoles.

 

[patsu]

Couldn't it output video to a TV through wireless? If it supports wireless N even in the worser case scenarios it hardly has to transmit anything more than 720P @ 30FPS and in the better cases it has to deal with less than half of that. Even with poor reception that ought to be doable although the issue is the lack of present support for a feature like that.

I guess overall you could call it almost a tablet / media / game device given the large emphasis on non game features like GPS, 3G and camera. I suspect that if they wanted to given the size of the device they could even diverge the feature set even further into different model ranges if they find theres a segment which demands a great camera/gps/internet experience whilst not being so fond of the games.

According to folks on the net, there is a proprietary dock on NGP. iOS devices use their dock connector to connect with projectors and TVs.

Wireless TV out should be possible too.

In fact, on the music front, wireless MIDI is doable.

 

[Squilliam]

According to folks on the net, there is a proprietary dock on NGP. iOS devices use their dock connector to connect with projectors and TVs.

Spoiler

Wireless TV out should be possible too.

In fact, on the music front, wireless MIDI is doable.

Shhhh, don't let Shifty see that!

So anyway that thing that we think might be possible, would it be also practical in more than a media sense

Spoiler

games!

since wouldn't the dock make it impractical to hold at the same time? Wouldn't a cable be more practical there?

 

[patsu]

You mean like RemotePlay between NGP and PS3 ? It will fall back to 802.11g. May be laggy for some games. Personally, I'm not sure if PS3 has spare resources to handle RemotePlay for games like GT5. The network overhead/latency takes up one chunk of time, leaving only a small portion left for PS3 to complete all its tasks. Only Sony knows the details and stats.

Video is a different story because there is no real-time interaction.

 

[Nesh]

I think this is gonna ...bomb bad. It is PSPx4 in hardware and PSPx4 in chances of total annihilation from the portable market....

Im holding out on calling it impressive specs...Sony just bought a bunch of off the shelf parts.. ..come back again once they get the unit functional with 4-6 hours of battery life.

My comments ....

-psp case style is old...2004 old...there is even more bezel space... to fit the 45nm parts i assume.
-will Sony use a good www browser this time?
-what kind of video format it plays?
-what other uses do Sony see from PSP2?
-do they finally have a ...vision for their playstation family
-will Stringer-Kaz's Sony be as 'open' as Ken's Sony?
-can i install Android if not?
-default UI is ugly...blue background and kiddy circles? Steve Jobs is dying of laughter.
-what is the difference between OLED and AMOLED?
-can it render "3D"?
-i expect the 28nm/slider to come with a 3D screen if so...
-what is the sound chip used? 24/192 quality?
-applaudable to build PSP2 for hardcore gamers....but did Move failure not taught them anything....?
-this thing still look ugly...and out of place in the new century...

I dont understand your pessimism and some of your concerns. Especially when they are mostly generic questions and assumptions (Sometimes weird ones too).

 

[joker454]

The second argument I don't understand is: Tablets will battle for the same money, NGP can't compare!

Again, I don't even know how you could bring Tablets, a recently reborn market that has yet to be "Nothing but iPad", which are principally used for internet and reading consumption into the handheld console market space.

Here's my issue with a device like this. If I'm at home and feel like gaming, then I'll play on a pc or console and get a proper gaming experience. If I'm heading out then I do not want to have to carry anything more than my phone so I'd never bring it with me. If I absolutely positively felt the need to carry something with me when heading out, other than my phone which is always with me, then I'd bring a laptop or tablet and have the ability to game and do everything else I want as a bonus without being confined to whatever this device will limit me to. So I just don't see how this device can ever sell in large numbers, seems like it will be relegated to niche except perhaps in Japan.

 

[patsu]

A lot of people fall in this camp. I suspect Sony knows it. I wonder what else is up their sleeves.

 

[eastmen]

Here's my issue with a device like this. If I'm at home and feel like gaming, then I'll play on a pc or console and get a proper gaming experience. If I'm heading out then I do not want to have to carry anything more than my phone so I'd never bring it with me. If I absolutely positively felt the need to carry something with me when heading out, other than my phone which is always with me, then I'd bring a laptop or tablet and have the ability to game and do everything else I want as a bonus without being confined to whatever this device will limit me to. So I just don't see how this device can ever sell in large numbers, seems like it will be relegated to niche except perhaps in Japan.

my dsi and my psp before i sold it would normaly be my travel devices. I would take them when i went on vacation. Driving down to florida , when i'm in the apartment just chilling with nothing to do. Its a hell of alot easier than bringing my xbox 360 or ps3.

My dsi would sometimes become my guy time device. i'd normaly go see a movie with my buddy nigel and we would get to the movie like 2 hours early so we could get the best seats and we'd hang waiting and play mario kart . I'd take that as it would fit in a coat pocket. I'd also bring it to the city when i'd go with my gf , it was something to do on the train and subway and what not . I'd also normaly have them at work. I get an hour lunch so i would normaly play for 30 mins or so


my phone and zune hd i'd allways have them and i'd take them out whenever i could esp my zune hd as my phone is normaly reserved for making calls or using the internet.


The 3ds and the NGP would be like my dsi and psp. I wouldn't play them every day or take them with me all the time , but enough to warrent the cost.

Oh and sometimes after having indian food , i'd play my dsi or psp a very long time ... very long time

 

[patsu]

This article probably summarize some folks' concerns about NGP:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/01/27/five-reasons-the-psp2-wont-succeed/

Sony has announced the PSP2 (temporarily named the “Next Generation Portable”), perhaps the final boss of handheld consoles. It’s far more powerful than its destined competitor, Nintendo’s 3DS, and incorporates social and locational data, 3G, a monster 5″ OLED screen, and a number of other features detailed here. It is to be one of the linchpin platforms for the world’s most recognizable entertainment electronics company, a stomping ground for new games, media, and services. And I think it’s going to go down in flames.

Why? It’s got its competitor beat on nearly every spec, it’s got the backing of droves of Sony fanboys, and million-selling franchises just waiting to be put on its crisp 960×544 screen. How can it fail? I’d say by not addressing the fundamental needs of a handheld gaming console and ignoring strong trends in the market.

Before I start, I just want to register my admiration of the Sony team in putting together such an impressive piece of hardware. No one can fault that. Sony is firing on all cylinders — but in my humble opinion, in the wrong direction. Here are the reasons why I feel they’re going to be steamrolled by Nintendo (and Apple) over the next three years.

...

 

[eastmen]

I don't agree with all of what he is saying. AAA games are still a selling point , aside from the 3ds you wont find that experiance anywhere else in the portable world.

Honestly i think this is on the wrong side of the console generation. It sounds really impressive that this has almost ps3 level graphics until you think about the fact that the ps3 / xbox 360 are at the end of their life cycles. Even if they aren't replaced in 2012 they will be replaced in 2013. It sounds like a long time away , but the NGP wont even release in most of the world until 2012. A console launching in 2013 may show up as early as 2012's e3

So the cutting edge graphics will not be so cutting edge very soon after its launch. We will be on another console gen with developers targeting those consoles and finding it hard to port back down to the NGP .

 

[patsu]

He may not be as "hardcore" as some of us here. I'm more like him.
OTOH, I suspect Kaz Hirai hasn't shown all his NGP + PSN hand yet.

Hard to say at this point which way NGP will go.

When opportunity arises, will definitely try out an NGP to see how it feels.

 

[eastmen]

He may not be as "hardcore" as some of us here. I'm more like him.
OTOH, I suspect Kaz Hirai hasn't shown all his NGP + PSN hand yet.

Hard to say at this point which way NGP will go.

When opportunity arises, will definitely try out an NGP to see how it feels.

I'm not that hardcore anymore either. I don't play many games. I can count on 1 hand how many games i plan on buying this year.

Well mabye not as i will most likely buy 1 or 2 stupid launch games on the 3DS that i wouldn't normaly buy if i didn't have a new toy.

But anyway I really think the 3G costs of this device is what will sink or swim it.

Verizon may want $30 a month for playing online and the same with AT&T . I'm not sure how well it wlill work out.

 

[gongo]

I dont understand your pessimism and some of your concerns. Especially when they are mostly generic questions and assumptions (Sometimes weird ones too).

Because as i mentioned...PSP2 looks so much like PSP..history likely to repeat itself...though optimistically speaking..i have seen things taking off the second try..who knows if portable maniacs decided to move from 3DS/iOS touch basic gameplay to a core experience...would depend on how third parties support of PSP2...and how Sony will open PSP2 up to more than the core gaming objectives....

 

[messyman]

I hope it's true!
http://www.ripten.com/2011/01/28/gamestop-now-taking-sony-ngp-pre-orders-for-299-with-50-deposit/