SCEA announces holiday sales figures (PSP: 1.4m, PS2: 1.3m, PS3: 1.2m)

[Crossbar]

MS on the other hand has been playing it extremely close to the vest with regards to price cuts however. I think they need one for Europe much more than USA, but I dont think it's really feasible to cut only in one territory.

Why not, we´ve seen that before, the price of the PS3 was cut in the US before it was cut in Europe.
The 360 has been dirt cheap in Japan compared to other territories right from the start, these companies have no problem differentiating the price on different markets if that was your concern.

Concerning the losses Sony make on the 40 GB model. Here in Europe I am pretty sure Sony prefered selling the 40 GB model at €400 than the 60 GB at €500 (with US 80 GB-motherboard), because the 60 GB model sold like crazy because of BC even at much higher price points in November, Sony brought in a few extra batches of 60 GB units in November that sold out just like that, but then nothing more, they just kept the 40 GB model. games-industry.biz reported that HMV would have liked more of the 60 GB for "up-selling". I believe a new PS3 model with larger HDD and BC will appear when they can build it at less loss, that motherboard may very well appear in the US 80 model at the same time.

I think Sony kept the 80 GB model (with the attractive BC function) in US because it was more needed there because of competetive reasons i.e. it´s a tougher market for Sony, Europe is probably helping subsidizing those units.

A lot of people seem to believe that the PS3 40 GB cost about $100 more to make than the 360 premium. If someone could specify the cost differences for the significant components to support that, it would be really interesting.

 

[AlNom]

[strike]One sec -> creating spin off[/strike]

Please continue the Bill of Materials and Cost/Price Reductions of Current Consoles discussion in the spin off thread please.

 

[....]

MS will cut the price in april/may IMHO. At least they should
Their holiday sales will be better than before, but not as good as PS2's best years, so they'll have to make the machine more appealing. The game catalogue is there already, all that's left to do is a cheaper price.

? Not even wii's touching those numbers, iirc.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Wii is getting very close, and remember that it is supply constrained in the US.

And yeah, the 360 is not selling as well at $350 as the PS2 did at $200 - which is why they should cut the price. And this is what I've said, right?

 

[Silent]

Today there was an article in the Belgian newspaper “De Morgen” about the gaming trends of 2007 in Belgium.

The console that sold the most in 2007 was the PS3 then the Wii which is followed very closely by the PS2. The last position was for the 360 who is very far behind.

Concrete numbers by platform weren’t given. Don't think we have a central tracking organisation.

 

[PARANOiA]

Did they mention numbers? It would be nice to tally the size of the dozens of "micro-markets" in the PAL regions.

 

[Silent]

Only totals (not individualy)

- 340.000 consoles
- 294.000 handhelds (PSP & DS)
- 4.16 milion consolegames

Keep in mind that we are a small country of only 10 million people. I also don't know of these numbers come from one retailer (Gamemania - the only one mentioned in the article) or that they are taken from all the shops that sells console hardware.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Only totals (not individualy)

- 340.000 consoles
- 294.000 handhelds (PSP & DS)
- 4.16 milion consolegames

Keep in mind that we are a small country of only 10 million people. I also don't know of these numbers come from one retailer (Gamemania - the only one mentioned in the article) or that they are taken from all the shops that sells console hardware.

Comparing the numbers from France (which is roughly 6x the population at least for total game sales), I'd say those are national, not for 1 retailer.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

There's a lot of speculative and spurious numbers coming from European "sources", but I don't put much stock in them. I don't for a second believe that PS3 is doing huge numbers at $399 in Europe. Seems like a lot of wishful thinking. It may very well be outselling the X360, but I don't think the margin is at all large right now.

 

[Acert93]

That million-seller list represents "American hardcore gamer" quite well. That much has been expected by the lineage of Xbox 1, the challenge of 360 is how to expand over it.

Putting aside the unfounded "American hardcore gamer" slant, this begs the question:

What is wrong with a business strategy that makes games people actually buy? Is making games for "non-hardcore gamers" who aren't buying games a better strategy?

360 hardware is now trending higher than the Xbox, and more significantly Xbox 360 software is selling at amazing levels. i.e. They have expanded.

In any case, I'd rather not play the 'wait and see' game.

I agree in general terms "wait and see" is becoming a less valid of a stance. "Lets wait and see how games released in 2007 sell in 2008" and the like are tired.

On price drops I will disagree though. Price drops are destined to occur. That is the beat of the industry. When is up for debate, but there is no doubt that there will be price drops this year. Who, and how much, is left to be determined.

We also have to take into account that this could be 360's last year. It is possible 720 comes out next year.

CUTE!

I would say it's higher than that. It's the time difference between 360 and xbox 1. 4 factors could influence it: a.) japan sales

There is no reason to believe an Xbox 3 in 2008 would do better in Japan. Even Sony's mighty PlayStation has been fallen at the feet of Nintendo's monster.

blu-ray's influence on the console market is noticeable,

There are two themes here: BDR as a movie media and BDR as a game media. On the movie front, with the HD optical format war essentially over, the uphill battle begins. As noted by Warner themselves, HD optical sales are low and the attach rate of media to BDRs is very low. BDR has defeated HD DVD, and now must overcome DVD. Even if $200 players appearing in the next year and with refined market focus and the upsurge of HDTVs there are still many hurdles to overcome. Even DVD took a number of years to gain momentum.

On the game front, already beat to death, and the quality of exclusives on the 360 as well as multiplatform games haven't indicated that DVD is killing games. There will be games that make good use of BDR, but over 2 years into "next gen" and DVD hasn't killed the market. Nothing on the radar to this point has been shown to be undoable on DVD.

The odds of Microsoft fretting over this invisible dragon are nill. They aren't going to rush out the Xbox 3 in 2008 over the fear of BDR as you suggest!!

c.) if the hardware problem on 360 is unfixable(don't know about this one, are these gone now?),

The new chips and cooling have improved reliablity of the new units to normal levels.

wii's flawless worldwide victory and ps3 possibly taking 2nd worldwide.

And why isn't the Wii's flawless victory motivation for the PS4 to come out in 2008?

The Wii is doing amazing, yet lost in such is the fact MS's Xbox 360 pushed more software than the Wii and PS3 combined. That isn't a flawless victory.

As for the PS3 taking 2nd place... two points. The first being that it is fiscally advantageous to be strong in 1 territory and terrible in 2 (or strong in 2 and terrible in 1) versus average in 3--especially if one of those territories doesn't make many games that appeal to the other territories.

And the second point is this: The PS3's first year in NA was worse than the GCN's and Xbox's first year in NA. Sony went as far as to match the 360's price point from 2007, toss in a free game, 5 free movies, and still didn't best last holiday sales figures. And software isn't moving like it should and BDR movie sales are low.

And with those two points in hand, you are argueing the possibility that MS will freak out and release the Xbox 3 in 2008?

The Xbox 3 isn't going to be released in 2008. You can end that speculation now. The 360 was released under unique circumstances: MS was losing money due to design contracts and could never get an "in the black" Xbox console to market at a competitive price. MS was never going to beat Sony with the Xbox: Sony sold more PS2's WW by the time the Xbox got to its first summer than the Xbox did LTD. Sony had already captured key exclusives as well as developer focus long before MS got their box on the market. They released a year later than Sony in NA (which was released after the DC) so the market generation was already mature and ready to move forward.. A number of forces came together that allowed MS to get competitive hardware out in 2005 and Sony tied themselves to a number of technologies and development schedules that made a 2005 launch nearly impossible, giving MS a strategic advantage.

MS releasing the Xbox 3 in 2008 Sig worthy!

 

[....]

I didn't say 2008, did I? I think I said next year, as in 2009. That'd be 5 years, and the same timespan from xbox1 to xbox360, and the common console lifespan. I think the psone sales going down were part of the reason sony was forced into launching the ps2 early(with h/w issues.). Though I'm not sure about that, I don't remember if this was an issue or not, but if it was and a psone at close to 100$ did go down in sales in its fifth year, it is likely something similar will happen to 360.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I didn't say 2008, did I? I think I said next year, as in 2009. That'd be 5 years, and the same timespan from xbox1 to xbox360, and the common console lifespan. I think the psone sales going down were part of the reason sony was forced into launching the ps2 early(with h/w issues.). Though I'm not sure about that, I don't remember if this was an issue or not, but if it was and a psone at close to 100$ did go down in sales in its fifth year, it is likely something similar will happen to 360.

Actually the 360 was released in november of 2005, the end of 2009 would be 4 years. The original xbox was scrapped early because it was doomed to never be profitable, the 360 has already seemed to turn the corner in terms of profitable quarters. I don't really see any good argument for MS going with another short life span, all I can see that it would accomplish is pissing off developers.

 

[quest55720]

I didn't say 2008, did I? I think I said next year, as in 2009. That'd be 5 years, and the same timespan from xbox1 to xbox360, and the common console lifespan. I think the psone sales going down were part of the reason sony was forced into launching the ps2 early(with h/w issues.). Though I'm not sure about that, I don't remember if this was an issue or not, but if it was and a psone at close to 100$ did go down in sales in its fifth year, it is likely something similar will happen to 360.

That would be 4 years and MS won't be so quick to launch this time. The reason to launch early is if your console is not making money. That is why we never see nintendo launch early even the gamecube made them money. With how well the 360 moves software and considering the strong postion they have in NA with only 1 small price cut since launch. MS has every insentive to extend the generation and collect cash that comes in later life cycle of a console. Hell if things don't turn we could see sony forced into an early launch. You think the PS1/PS2 had long life cycles to be customer friendly? Hell no it was because they were making money hand over fist those last few years.

 

[Zassk]

Let us put this nonsense to rest. Peter Moore is on record as stating that the next Xbox is planned for 2011-2012.

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/20...aunch-in-2011-2012-according-to-microsoft.htm

 

[....]

Yeah my bad on the count. I took the xbox's first year into account leading to 5 years instead of four.

Let us put this nonsense to rest. Peter Moore is on record as stating that the next Xbox is planned for 2011-2012.

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/20...aunch-in-2011-2012-according-to-microsoft.htm

There are rumors that was moved down to 2009-2010.

 

[Miksu]

Yeah my bad on the count. I took the xbox's first year into account leading to 5 years instead of four.

There are rumors that was moved down to 2009-2010.

And these rumours, do they exist in some other place than in your head?

 

[....]

And these rumours, do they exist in some other place than in your head?

Obviously, or else they wouldn't be rumors now would they?

There are two leaks I've heard about, one is this one:

As many people have already guessed, microsoft has already started creating the next gen revolutionary console design to surpass the PS3, while their product the 360 is currently still doing pretty well... The failure rate of the console and issues with the design has been noted for the release of a better system still in production. Yes the 720 will have blu-ray features, xbox live and almost the same features as the PS3 but as for the CELL and Gfx card, that is yet to be annouced. MS is hoping to release this new unit 2009-2010. (IGN reports)- Andrew R. Chia s

Don't know if that's true.

Second is a leak of a first party game's development already being moved from 360 to the next-xbox.

According to 1UP, Microsoft is already working on its next console to the extent that game development has begun. A rumour to be published in the latest issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly reports that a new high profile game is being developed for the next Microsoft console.

The 'secret first party sequel' was apparently originally planned for release on Microsoft's current machine, the Xbox 360, but the project has recently been moved to the company's next console...


With big games taking several years to develop these days, it makes sense for major 2009 (and even 2010) projects to be in development already. But this hint, if true, is the first glimpse of any of the hardware manufacturers timetables for the next generational transition.

link

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Butl, I said that because someone in another site compared npd numbers for the latest two or three months(before december obviously).

The % comparison for ps3 and xbox360 was, 30ish, 40ish and 65 percent of sales for the last month. It seemed like if that trend continued the gap would close and reverse in the following months. .

Why are you talking about percentages and growth ?

I love how certain people downplay the only numbers of relevance, hardware sales and software sales, and instead start talking about completely irrelevant monthly % data, AND EVEN TRENDING IT. To think that the PS3 will sustain the same level of growth it had when it went down and after it got a 33% price cut, is completely ridiclous. And lastly, the lower your numbers are, the easier it is to gain % growth..

If your selling 100k a month, and you suddenly get a 100% sales boost, your still only doing 200k a month.


Oh and as far as your X720 will launch in 2009 theory, i hate to break it to you, but right now, the console manufacturer most likely to release a new console in 2009, is the PS3. The lowest sales, the most losses, ensure of that being the most likely scenario to happend.

 

[2real4tv]

Why are you talking about percentages and growth ?

I love how certain people downplay the only numbers of relevance, hardware sales and software sales, and instead start talking about completely irrelevant monthly % data, AND EVEN TRENDING IT. To think that the PS3 will sustain the same level of growth it had when it went down and after it got a 33% price cut, is completely ridiclous. And lastly, the lower your numbers are, the easier it is to gain % growth..

If your selling 100k a month, and you suddenly get a 100% sales boost, your still only doing 200k a month.


Oh and as far as your X720 will launch in 2009 theory, i hate to break it to you, but right now, the console manufacturer most likely to release a new console in 2009, is the PS3. The lowest sales, the most losses, ensure of that being the most likely scenario to happend.

"The lowest sales, the most losses, ensure of that being the most likely scenario to happend"

From my understanding ps3 is selling just as well as the 360 when it was released...at least WW.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

"The lowest sales, the most losses, ensure of that being the most likely scenario to happend"

From my understanding ps3 is selling just as well as the 360 when it was released...at least WW.

First of all aligning the numbers is irrelevant, as the competition is allready here and thats what your up against. Second, sales are not only hardware, but also software and the PS3 software sales are absymal (they are absymal wether you like to compare it to the frist X360 year, or the second, or whatever you want). And frankly, unless your selling your console at a profit (which Sony is not), you need software sales to make money. And no matter what PR lines some people may post here about 10 year lifecycles and whatever, ultimately this is decided by one thing only, and that is money.

Disclaimer: I do not believe that Sony will actually make release a PS4 in 2009. But as far as "likely scenarios" go, Sony is certainly atleast as likely to release a PS4 this soon as Microsoft.