No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
Ratchet and Clank PS3 - High Resolution screens
- Thread starter almighty
- Start date
Using SPUs to "optimize" geometry is not a win win situation, it does not make sense in very game or in every situation, can't expand on this sorry..
I'm not judging the game. Don't need to really, it's Insomniac (a top notch crew) I know it will be a great game. I'm more curious as to why they are doing what they are doing. The are a PS3 only shop, and by now they've had time to make use of the spu's. But they've chosen not to for geometry. Call me curious but I'd love to know why
nAo seems to be able to infer more. Too bad he can't say...
Insomniac has mentioned that they prefer to use the SPUs for something else and let RSX handles the graphics alone. I am curious too, but I tend to place less emphasis on piecemeal enhcements like foliage... unless they adds to gameplay in a meaningful way.
My "judgement" comments is more directed at earlier posts. Sorry for the confusion.
Insomniac has mentioned that they prefer to use the SPUs for something else and let RSX handles the graphics alone. I am curious too, but I tend to place less emphasis on piecemeal enhcements like foliage... unless they adds to gameplay in a meaningful way.
My "judgement" comments is more directed at earlier posts. Sorry for the confusion.
I was just pondering why the foliage stood out to me. Then I remembered, I just upgraded my PC today specifically for Crysis and just watched a bunch of Crysis videos. So I guess I had foliage on the mind
I don't have any contacts in Insomniac but having a bit of experience working on PS3 let me understand when SPUs can help RSX in a substantial way and when they can't, that's why I say it does not make always sense to use SPUs to optmize or pre-cull geometry.
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
I'm fairly sure it is all a matter of priorities. There have been several developers who said they would keep most graphics stuff on RSX and use the SPUs for gameplay enhancements and innovations. The nice thing about the whole setup in the PS3 in this respect is that you can do a lot of different things depending on your priorities. If, say, deformable terrains are a huge priority to you, or you have relatively simple gameplay requirements and want to spend everything you have left on graphics, then there could be good reasons to involve the SPUs in the graphics pipeline. But if your gameplay, AI, collision detection, advanced physics stuff, etc. needs the SPUs more, then that's where the SPUs will be at.
The artwork is good and the game seems to have good fun factor. Otherwise I fully agree with you about the graphics. And I saw the same on R&C for PS2, high amounts of geometry but the rest consisting of simple textures, effects and overall no advanced technical factor (indoor scenes had a bit more effects and such though).
No in my opinion it is the artwork and the amount of stuff to fill in the scenes with that holds it floating this gen IMHO. :smile:
That comment had been discussed somewhere else and if you'd like we can continue on SPU thread but here is my take on the subject:
SPUs do provide an option for developers but it is not "5 out of 10 developers would use them for gfx" level yet.
Specifically backface culling seems very costly and I am willing to bet the self occlusion will be insignificant (compared to cost) when most of your geometry budget is spent on an environment full of walls or distant structures where you can easily switch the LoD if necessary.
Regarding R&C and backface culling, I expect relatively complex weapons or other gameplay elements from Insomniac, so I would understand if they cannot spare that many SPUs.
Now people are implying it is barely new-gen, unbelievable.
I really wonder what texture freaks think when they watch cartoony CGI movies (ala The Incredibles) with lots of flat textures.
To me saying R&C sucks because it lacks high resolution textures is pretty much same as saying it sucks because it doesn't have bikes.
I still expect people to point somewhere on this image and say "those require high-res textures as opposed to blurry ones". Of course it may be wise to check other games that people find impressive because of the texture work.
In Resistance some of the stuff I was most impressed with was the glass, the snow, and the more than excellent and pixel precise (bullet) collision detection, and the very fast and bouncing off of nearly anything energy bullets (forgot the name of the weapon). In other words, gameplay elements (physics, AI, animation).
Those who know the Ratchett franchise also know that while the graphics have always been rather excellent, it's all about the fun gameplay, with the different weapons playing a starring role.
Sure, I also think that Insomniac's engine is still not 100% optimised for the way Cell is set-up, considering how early they started their development. But while that might mean they are not going to pull some extra graphics stuff out of the SPUs, and if they were to completely start over they'd probably do some stuff differently, they are by now (according to other developers at least) also some of the most proficient SPU coders out there, and I'm sure we'll see that Ratchett puts the SPUs to excellent use.
In Gameplay.
Those who know the Ratchett franchise also know that while the graphics have always been rather excellent, it's all about the fun gameplay, with the different weapons playing a starring role.
Sure, I also think that Insomniac's engine is still not 100% optimised for the way Cell is set-up, considering how early they started their development. But while that might mean they are not going to pull some extra graphics stuff out of the SPUs, and if they were to completely start over they'd probably do some stuff differently, they are by now (according to other developers at least) also some of the most proficient SPU coders out there, and I'm sure we'll see that Ratchett puts the SPUs to excellent use.
In Gameplay.
Yes but advanced lighting makes it look good. And the thing that detail in textures are not painted in but true 3D polygonal (mapping technique could do good here with good lighting to bring the detail out).
I didn't said the game *sucks* (by the way is a teen word IMHO). It doesn't need to be higher res (well atleast 512x512 res textures), but instead have mapping techniques. :smile:
I'll wait until E3 (2 days more) to see more, maybe Im in for a surprise, who knows?
IMO, anyone who thinks this game as it currently is, is anything but stunning, is simply playing devils advocate. It's already leagues ahead of CG-esque games like Blue Dragon, Kameo, and should Banjo and Kazooie (3) make an appearance, I'm willing to bet it will look better than that as well.
You're speaking 'generally' which is cool, but in the R&C screenshot posted earlier, you don't think spu's would help? I understand you can't elaborate on it, but a yes/no would be good enough. Seems to me like culling would help objects like the main character (all characters really), the statue in the distance, lamp posts, most of the geometry thats holding the foliage, etc...
On the foliage itself, you could animate and world space position all the geometry on the spu's, then you could have relatively empty vertex shaders. You could also make them more complex if you did spu culling, since you'd then not be limited to having 'billboard' type foliage that usually faces the camera. The texture set on their foliage is relatively limited, so you could setup RSX once and then blast a pre-positioned pre-cullled triangle list right to RSX courtesy of the spu's that would represent the scene foliage.
Anyways, thats "sort of" some of the stuff we're doing now, to me it seems like they could benefit from it also from what I see in that screen shot. Hence why I'm curious. Unless by chance they are currently more cpu bound. I can't imagine that being the case though!
Love_In_Rio said:
Core2Quad and an 8800 gts, I'm all set for Crysis
scooby_dooby
Legend
The game is stunning, but as nAo would say, 'clearly not realtime'
The levels of AA is ridiculous in those screens, and they are huge 3200pixel resolution originally, but still, as long as they can get at least 2xAA this game will be gorgeous.
The levels of AA is ridiculous in those screens, and they are huge 3200pixel resolution originally, but still, as long as they can get at least 2xAA this game will be gorgeous.
If you check the original images they already have AA, according mmmkay they use 2x + quincunx filtering
