Ratchet and Clank PS3 - High Resolution screens

[Shifty Geezer]

I disagree, lighting and shadows is imo the absolutely most important aspects of a game graphics wise

I agree that these are the fundamental aspects to creating a solid, believable look to a game. They are more important than texture quality, extra polys on characters, and so forth

Still, in RnC I don't notice glaring shadowing faults other than those I mentioned earlier. The rich lighting is providing a good sense of depth and solidity. It's a bit jarring when the shadows disappear/suddenly appear, but composition wise the characters are fairly good. Artistically a case can be made against shadowing on everything which would break up the flatter, more cartoon-y look. The feel of the game would be quite different if lighting complexity matched Uncharted - I don't know if it'd be better or not.

 

[dantruon]

I disagree, lighting and shadows is imo the absolutely most important aspects of a game graphics wise, nail the lighting and a lot can be forgiven. (Hint: look how good GT4 looks)

it still looks mile ahead of any platforming game on any system, is it almost CG and i hate to use those two letters when we are talking about game's graphic.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

it still looks mile ahead of any platforming game on any system, is it almost CG and i hate to use those two letters when we are talking about game's graphic.

I wasn't talking specifically about R&C.. My opinion was for all games

 

[dantruon]

I wasn't talking specifically about R&C.. My opinion was for all games

but you are in a R&C thread

 

[Cheezdoodles]

And i responded to a comment about shadows vs geometry.

I dont care if you think R&C looks like CG, shadows and lighting is still imo the most important factor by a mile when it comes to graphics in my opinion.

 

[Graham]

Look at the second picture posted above, there isn't a round blob for a shadow, there is a Ratchet shaped shadow.

If you are going to comment about shadows at least make yourself clear. (at Phat not Phil)

I am not a GFX guru by any stretch of the imagination, but that looks like some "proper" shadows to me.

Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but something about this image has been bugging me.. And I think I've worked it out.

Taken as individual parts, it looks amazing. Models, background, characters, all top notch. Yet the lighting does not appear consistent with the scene or between the characters themselves.
Each character is being lit from a different direction, yet they all have vertically cast shadows.

It's all fantastically detailed, yet it lacks depth. It's almost like my brain is getting confused. I didn't even realise he's holding a hammer until I really looked close at the image.
Check out the 'prongs' on the robots to the left, the rear one is lit from above, the close one is lit from below...

 

[patsu]

Yes I do get confused by R&C shots because there are too many things on screen at once. Would lighting really help in this case ? (The screen would still be too busy for me) ...unless they focus the lights only on the more important elements. Is this what you mean ?

In motion (e.g., the gameplay video and Captain Quark's trailer), the game looks good though. Is this a November release ?

 

[Neb]

Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but something about this image has been bugging me.. And I think I've worked it out.

Taken as individual parts, it looks amazing. Models, background, characters, all top notch. Yet the lighting does not appear consistent with the scene or between the characters themselves.
Each character is being lit from a different direction, yet they all have vertically cast shadows.

It's all fantastically detailed, yet it lacks depth. It's almost like my brain is getting confused. I didn't even realise he's holding a hammer until I really looked close at the image.Check out the 'prongs' on the robots to the left, the rear one is lit from above, the close one is lit from below...

When I look at most textures in the game they just look flat, lifeless, I would like it more if they had more 'depth' to bring out the details IMO.

 

[Arwin]

Check out the 'prongs' on the robots to the left, the rear one is lit from above, the close one is lit from below...

It's an enhanced version of the Resistance FoM engine. Shouldn't that say a lot in itself? It's not like they suddenly went all deferred and everything.

 

[Kittonwy]

[Modhat]'That is all' is not enough! Make sure your post contributes clearly your POV, or in this case disgreement with phat. If phat is wrong (in your opinion), the purpose of the disucssion forum is to point out things he may have missed.[/Modhat]

As for the shadows...

You'll need to explain yourself. Proper shadows on what/where? I just watched some 10-ish videos on GameTrailers. The shadowing is fairly standard. All the characters seem to have cast shadows. There are instances where these disappear. Ratchet ascending a lift doesn't cast a shadow onto the platform. In most cases though shadowing from characters is fine. Though it does also pop in when landing which is a bit rough.

What is a bit lacking, and if this is what you meant I agree with you, is scenery casting shadows. Boxes don't compose well with the scene because of this. Some of that could be put down to artistic choice, though if so, I don't agree wtih it. A small soft shadow under each box would be a big plus IMO.

I would love to see some self-shadowing on characters and objects, I don't know why they don't do that in their games when they're already doing normal mapping, I don't even care if the shadows look like crap but I would like to have them.

 

[betan]

I would love to see some self-shadowing on characters and objects, I don't know why they don't do that in their games when they're already doing normal mapping, I don't even care if the shadows look like crap but I would like to have them.

You don't see self-shadowing????

 

[DJ12]

Here's a nice interview about R & C.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462728

Tell us about the overhaul of the engine technology to take advantage of the new console?
We are continuing to build our Insomniac Engine and have made many improvements to it since Resistance: Fall of Man. The one huge focus for us has been moving more of our processes over to the SPUs on the CELL processor. This has allowed us to get our physics and effects systems running roughly four times faster than it did in Resistance at nearly double the framerate, which is something you can see in weapons like the Tornado Launcher.

This bit is quite interesting, considering they were pretty much at the forefront of SPU knowledge with Resistance, and have themselves seen a 4 fold increase in performance (or would they be 8 fold as they are running 60fps now not 30)

 

[mckmas8808]

Here's a nice interview about R & C.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462728


This bit is quite interesting, considering they were pretty much at the forefront of SPU knowledge with Resistance, and have themselves seen a 4 fold increase in performance (or would they be 8 fold as they are running 60fps now not 30)

I can't wait to play this game.

 

[Neb]

Here's a nice interview about R & C.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462728

Tell us about the overhaul of the engine technology to take advantage of the new console?
We are continuing to build our Insomniac Engine and have made many improvements to it since Resistance: Fall of Man. The one huge focus for us has been moving more of our processes over to the SPUs on the CELL processor. This has allowed us to get our physics and effects systems running roughly four times faster than it did in Resistance at nearly double the framerate, which is something you can see in weapons like the Tornado Launcher.

This bit is quite interesting, considering they were pretty much at the forefront of SPU knowledge with Resistance, and have themselves seen a 4 fold increase in performance (or would they be 8 fold as they are running 60fps now not 30)

That is good but he is talking about the physics and effects system only as I see it.

 

[patsu]

That is good but he is talking about the physics and effects system only as I see it.

The doubling in framerate will be good for Resistance 2 also

 

[Neb]

The doubling in framerate will be good for Resistance 2 also

I would rather appreciate that they have it at 30fps and fix the effects, shadows and AI above average. That would make it look far better and be more fun to play with!

 

[betan]

I would rather appreciate that they have it at 30fps and fix the effects, shadows and AI above average. That would make it look far better and be more fun to play with!

AI and effects were broken?

Self shadowing and streaming would be nice.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

60fps

Here's a nice interview about R & C.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10462728


This bit is quite interesting, considering they were pretty much at the forefront of SPU knowledge with Resistance, and have themselves seen a 4 fold increase in performance (or would they be 8 fold as they are running 60fps now not 30)

60fps was mentioned awhile ago…

On the more technical side of things, Insomniac is targeting a solid frame rate of 60 fps for this title, though the builds we saw were running between 40 and 60 fps at the time. Regardless, such a high frame rate makes this game quite thrilling to watch, since there is rich graphical detail not only in the character designs, but more noticeably, within the environments. Insomniac seems to be striving for very colorful and vibrant planets, with an equally colorful cast of characters. Each character was planned from the ground up to sport a captivating and enticing silhouette, which should lead to inherently gripping character designs. The developers at Insomniac commented that their experience with Resistance: Fall of Man has given them incredible insight into developing "next-generation" titles, and thus far, it shows.

 

[patsu]

I would rather appreciate that they have it at 30fps and fix the effects, shadows and AI above average. That would make it look far better and be more fun to play with!

AI is already above average in Resistance: Fall of Men. They succeeded in flanking me more than once in "Hard" mode.

Visually I'll leave it up to them to decide (I don't really care about high quality shadow since I'm not fighting them). Streaming is nice if it doesn't lose the level variety Resistance already has.

Currently RFOM is one of the few games a friend can play without feeling nauseous. I reckon if they can run the game at almost double the framerate, other enhancement (while keeping the framerate at 30fps) should be no issue. They still have some time before R2 is launched.

For Insomniac, I actually look forward to gameplay innovation more.